Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:34 am
A friend and I were recently discussing whether or not legislation should be passed to legalized marijuana throughout the country. That conversation then led to other substances such as cocaine, heroin, meth, ect. I do not personally use illicit drugs, nor do I promote illicit drug use. However, I do believe that if a person wishes to partake in such activities the federal government should not have the authority to deny that person the right to consume them. Any thoughts?
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 01:57 pm
I agree with you. Recreational drugs should be treated the same as alcohol; in other words, control its use and impose penalties for misuse, but there's no ethical excuse for banning them outright. In particular, it's outrageous to actually criminalize their use.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:20 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
AMEN to both you good people.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:57 pm

How do you feel about the use and misuse of certain mind/mood altering prescription drugs?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:59 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
What if a particular drug were known to cause addiction with one little experimental use? Would you feel differently, then?
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:59 pm
@H2O MAN,
I abhor the misuse of drugs and alcohol...whether legal or illegal. But use of illegal drugs is not necessarily "misuse" of the drug. It is recreational use...and illegal use...but not necessarily misuse.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:04 pm
@roger,
I doubt that I'd feel differently, roger. I would say that this likelihood of addiction should then be widely publicized and warning labels mandated (the way we mandate warning labels on tobacco products) but I don't think anything of that sort should be outright illegal.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:05 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Cannot think of anything that comes remotely close to the hypothetical drug in any case. And there are people who suppose that addiction is more a function of the individual...than of the substance.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Absolutely right, Frank. That's why some people become alcoholics while others continue to be social drinkers with no adverse effects.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:08 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Does anybody even read the warning labels on cigarettes.


Didn't think so.
Lustig Andrei
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:11 pm
@roger,
Not the point, really. The labels are there. Neglect to read and heed them at your own peril. The government regulatory agencies are not in loco parentis, there to tell me what I may or may not use. They do have a responsibility to warn me of danger, but that's all.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:16 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

I abhor the misuse of drugs and alcohol...whether legal or illegal. But use of illegal drugs is not necessarily "misuse" of the drug. It is recreational use...and illegal use...but not necessarily misuse.


Agreed, my concern is with certain prescription medications that seem to be advertised to and pushed
into the hands of masses of people that don't really need them. Doesn't this also constitute abuse?
Zarathustra
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:25 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Absolutely wrong Andrew, there has never been clear evidence of addiction being “individual-based” or of addictive personalities, while there are some very general characteristics that are weak indicators that is about it. In fact a huge study done by Dr. Lee Robert in 1974 comparing rates of addiction, rates of recovery, and rates of relapse were startling. Although the purity of heroin in Nam almost always exceeded 90% vs. domestic purity rarely above 10% the number of participants who relapsed that were Nam war vets was 7%, that of domestic addicts was 67%! No strong “individual” indicators were noted.

The conclusion was environment and behaviors were leading indicators of addiction and relapse. Those participants who were taken out of the situation that stimulated drug use and taken away from continued behaviors and their triggers (people, places, activities, incidents) were strongly correlated to minimal addiction issues. This happened across all characteristics that were traditional thought of as clear markers for addictive personalities.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 03:56 pm
@Zarathustra,
Wikipedia wrote:
A complex mixture of genetic and environmental factors influences the risk of the development of alcoholism. Genes that influence the metabolism of alcohol also influence the risk of alcoholism, and may be indicated by a family history of alcoholism. One paper has found that alcohol use at an early age may influence the expression of genes which increase the risk of alcohol dependence. Individuals who have a genetic disposition to alcoholism are also more likely to begin drinking at an earlier age than average.

Also, a younger age of onset of drinking is associated with an increased risk of the development of alcoholism, and about 40 percent of alcoholics will drink excessively by their late adolescence. It is not entirely clear whether this association is causal, and some researchers have been known to disagree with this view. A high testosterone concentration during pregnancy may be a risk factor for later development of alcohol dependence.

Severe childhood trauma is also associated with a general increase in the risk of drug dependency. Lack of peer and family support is associated with an increased risk of alcoholism developing. Genetics and adolescence are associated with an increased sensitivity to the neurotoxic effects of chronic alcohol abuse. Cortical degeneration due to the neurotoxic effects increases impulsive behaviour, which may contribute to the development, persistence and severity of alcohol use disorders. There is evidence that with abstinence, there is a reversal of at least some of the alcohol induced central nervous system damage.

Genetic variation

Genetic differences exist between different racial groups which affect the risk of developing alcohol dependence. For example, there are differences between African, East Asian and Indo-racial groups in how they metabolize alcohol. These genetic factors are believed to, in part, explain the differing rates of alcohol dependence among racial groups. The alcohol dehydrogenase allele ADH1 B*3 causes a more rapid metabolism of alcohol. The allele ADH1 B*3 is only found in those of African descent and certain Native American tribes. African Americans and Native Americans with this allele have a reduced risk of developing alcoholism. Native Americans however, have a significantly higher rate of alcoholism than average; it is unclear why this is the case. Other risk factors such as cultural environmental effects e.g. trauma have been proposed to explain the higher rates of alcoholism among Native Americans compared to alcoholism levels in caucasians.


[All italics are mine. What pertains to alcohol abuse is generally considered to pertain to the abuse of other narcotic substances as well.]
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:47 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5223436)
Frank Apisa wrote:

I abhor the misuse of drugs and alcohol...whether legal or illegal. But use of illegal drugs is not necessarily "misuse" of the drug. It is recreational use...and illegal use...but not necessarily misuse.


Agreed, my concern is with certain prescription medications that seem to be advertised to and pushed
into the hands of masses of people that don't really need them. Doesn't this also constitute abuse?


We are going to find ourselves in one of those rare moments of agreement on this,H2O. I think prescription drugs are way, way, way over-used in America...and I would love to see more literature warning people (and prescribing doctors) of the dangers--and I think legislation designed to control excesses by doctors ought to be considered . Pain relievers, diet enhancers, and sleeping aids seem to be particularly out of control...with drugs aimed at making the yang stiffer coming up on the outside.

Television ads touting this crap ought to be handled the way we handle television ads dealing with cigarettes or whiskey.

The problem of kids getting hold of prescription drugs and then using or selling them is not given enough publicity...and much needs to be done in that regard.

You are right, H2O, that over-prescription or indiscriminate prescription of those kinds of drugs cross the line into the abuse area.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:49 pm
@Zarathustra,
Quote:
Re: Lustig Andrei (Post 5223444)
Absolutely wrong Andrew, there has never been clear evidence of addiction being “individual-based” or of addictive personalities, while there are some very general characteristics that are weak indicators that is about it. In fact a huge study done by Dr. Lee Robert in 1974 comparing rates of addiction, rates of recovery, and rates of relapse were startling. Although the purity of heroin in Nam almost always exceeded 90% vs. domestic purity rarely above 10% the number of participants who relapsed that were Nam war vets was 7%, that of domestic addicts was 67%! No strong “individual” indicators were noted.

The conclusion was environment and behaviors were leading indicators of addiction and relapse. Those participants who were taken out of the situation that stimulated drug use and taken away from continued behaviors and their triggers (people, places, activities, incidents) were strongly correlated to minimal addiction issues. This happened across all characteristics that were traditional thought of as clear markers for addictive personalities.


Why do I feel this argument you offered bolsters Lustig's suggestions more than argues against them?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Cool

Quote:
We are going to find ourselves in one of those rare moments of agreement on this,H2O.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2013 10:12 pm
@spitfire88,
Last year I shared lodging at a shelter with a convicted felon who had done years in prison for holding up a convenience store.

Was the stick up his fault? Of course not! He was strung out, craving his beloved oxycontin, and stuck without any legal means of getting any.

I support a ban on extremely addictive drugs like crack for the same reason I support banning lead in gasoline, because they both lead to crimes that are far from victimless. (But marijauna, from what I hear, is less addictive than nicotine.)
spitfire88
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 01:03 am
@Kolyo,
If people choose to put something in their body and then commit a crime, they need to be held accountable for the crime itself. Nicotine, alcohol, and caffiene are addictive and are legal. Smoking and drinking kill far more people than all illegal drugs combine. People need to be held accountable for their actions.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 01:13 am
@spitfire88,
Oh, I definitely think they should be held accountable. I just think it's worth looking beyond "free will" when we try to figure out what's causing crime and how best to go about stopping it.

The really sad thing about guys like that is that they don't think there's anything wrong with their drug use AND they blame their crimes on that drug use. They don't see how ultimately it's they who put in motion the chain of events that lead to their crimes.
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Illicit drug use
Copyright © 2017 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 02/23/2017 at 12:22:21