8
   

Calling all atheists

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 08:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
Did you give them your e-mail address? That is what they are really after. These atheists are the sneaky kind.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 08:55 pm
@maxdancona,
Yep, I just checked. You have to provide an email address to be counted as an Atheist. Atheist spam.... I wonder what that is like.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 09:15 pm
@maxdancona,
See, now, you are ascribing to them the basest motives without getting to know them. Not to mention, if they do spam me, it won't matter, as I rarely open unsolicited emails. If it appears, along with fuckbuddiess, penis enlargers and Nigerian come-ons, it will be unnoticed and deleted.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 09:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
I look at their website Edgar. They are advocating for a number of causes from reproductive and gay rights, to government policies.

Of course there is no problem with advocating for these positions (in fact I line up with many of them), but to do so in the name of Atheism contradicts the idea that Atheism doesn't come with its own set of doctrines.

I do think it is a bit sleazy for an organization of activists pushing a set of social/political ideals to hold a "census" of Atheists as a way to get contacts for a mailing list.


edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 09:33 pm
@maxdancona,
Where you err is in assuming people will be manipulated in this situation. I have not examined their site at all, because I do not care what agendas they may have. I would be willing to bet, if there were some way to accurately count who did what, that most people who responded did not look over the site in any meaningful way. But if some did it's no skin off my nose.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 09:43 pm
@edgarblythe,
Come on Edgar! Where you err is that you have difficult being skeptical of an organization simply because it calls itself "Atheist".

When you clicked on that link, you were sent to a page that prominently displays a slick corporate logo that reads "Atheist Census a Project of the Atheist Alliance". The large slogan reads "Numbers matter. Be counted.". Which is an ironic slogan for an Atheist Organization to have. How does the number of people who don't collect stamps (or who don't believe in god) matter?

Are you open-minded enough to admit that this type of project for an organization of people who claim to not have any common beliefs is ridiculous? They are branding Atheism and then using it to push a set of social and political agenda.

Where is the website for people who don't collect stamps?



edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:24 pm
@maxdancona,
I am not giving them a pass. I am indifferent. I don't care what they do. Why you seem to think this web site is some monolithic movement that represents atheists in general is beyond me. How many members could they have? Who listens to them? How many programs have they pushed through? From what you described, they seem to be a group of atheist progressives. Right there it should tell you something. I have known at least as many conservative atheists as progressive. Tempest in a pee pot.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
Atheist progressive eh? Why not just call them progressive. Someone's belief that there isn't a god doesn't doesn't have anything to do with whether they are progressive or not.

I know people that don't believe in God, but do believe that public display of religion is a net positive for society and for many individuals. These people are offended by the attempts to remove religion from public place (even though they don't believe in any deities themselves). Are they atheists?

I know a person who doesn't believe in God who is a practicing Catholic (I don't understand this) but she goes to Mass, takes communion, all while not believing. Is she an atheist? I know several practicing Jews who also fall in this category, attending synagogue and adhering to the tenets of the religion (my impression is that this is not that uncommon). Are they atheists?

You can't have it both ways. If you really want a strict definition of atheist as someone who doesn't believe in any god, then you need to acknowledge that this is a designation that is so broad that it is almost useless. There are atheists who don't mind God on money or religious displays on public squares. There are atheists who believe that abortion is wrong and who don't support gay marriage.

As soon as you start an organization with a set of goals or beliefs (beyond the one very narrow belief that there is no god) then you have something beyond an "atheist group".

You don't have to be against religion in the public square to be an atheist. In fact we shouldn't use the word atheist to describe people who are against religion in public-- if you do then you are contradicting your own definition.

This is the problem I have with people who call themselves Atheists. They tend to have goals that go far beyond the simple "non-belief" that doesn't drive them.

It is the dishonesty that bugs me.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:42 pm
@maxdancona,
I see now. You are just looking for an angle to smear all atheists. Oh, well. I tried.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's a cop out Edgar. I am not smearing all atheists. I am criticizing the hypocrisy in the actions of many people who call themselves Atheists and then use that label push social or political agenda at the same time they desperately claim that are not like a religion.

I don't believe in god. I am not smearing myself. It is the hypocrisy that bothers me.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:46 pm
@maxdancona,
Conversation over.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:46 pm
@edgarblythe,
Thank God! (and not believing in God I mean that metaphorically.)
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  4  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2012 11:38 pm
@maxdancona,
You want to know why it matters. It matters to me because one belief I do hold strongly is that religion is the most malignant influence on the face of the earth. Any assertion that it also does some good is like praising a rapist who always uses a condom. Until the advent of the internet and social media there was no way for people of rational mind to effectively counter the political influence of the religious. Now we do. If you don't like it, fine .don't participate. Nobody is going to claim some form of eternal damnation for you. But for ****'s sake, stop complaing like whiny little bitch about it.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 12:17 am
@Wilso,
You can believe or not.

Quote:
. Privacy Policy
This privacy policy sets out how Atheist Alliance International (AAI) will use and protect any information that you provide as part of Atheist Census.

If you have any questions or concerns after reviewing this privacy policy please contact us.



What we collect

The information collected by Atheist Census is your demographic information (the answers to the six Atheist Census questions) and email address.



What we do with your information

The aim of Atheist Census is to collect demographic data from and count the world's atheists. As such, the demographic information collected will be held by AAI in perpetuity. In an aggregated form that does not identify any individual, Atheist Census data is available through the website and AAI may provide such data to groups or individuals.

An email address will be associated with each set of census responses solely for data validation purposes. An email will be sent to your email address so that you can validate your data for Atheist Census. Data will not be included in Atheist Census unless it has been validated. Once data is validated each email address is retained in a "hashed" (one way encrypted) format to protect data integrity, so that even if the Atheist Census database is compromised it will not be possible for your email address to be de-coded. If the data is not validated within 24 hours the email address and all associated data is deleted.

AAI will not share your email address with any person or organisation outside Atheist Census, use the email address for any purpose other than data validation and will not contact you after your data has been validated, unless you initiate contact with Atheist Census.



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0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 03:03 am
@Wilso,
I agree (as you may know) that religion is pernicious at the social level but that is precisely why we atheists should exercise caution in subscribing to any social group ourselves because that would tend to draw up battle lines (Napoleon style). And since there appears to be a psychological need for much of humanity to believe in some mythical palliative which is often used as a vehicle for socialization, I cannot conceive of any role for modern communications other than to very gradually dilute the local tribalism of humanity by exposure to alternative cultures. Any pro-active move at proselytizing about what we consider to be "rationality" would be resisted fanatically.
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 03:37 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

I agree (as you may know) that religion is pernicious at the social level but that is precisely why we atheists should exercise caution in subscribing to any social group ourselves because that would tend to draw up battle lines (Napoleon style). And since there appears to be a psychological need for much of humanity to believe in some mythical palliative which is often used as a vehicle for socialization, I cannot conceive of any role for modern communications other than to very gradually dilute the local tribalism of humanity by exposure to alternative cultures. Any pro-active move at proselytizing about what we consider to be "rationality" would be resisted fanatically.


It's already happening. Religious forces are rabidly defending their ideologies. I think it's too late for "gradual dilution". That's only my opinion of course, but I don't see an alternative but for atheists to organise is some form or other. I don't envisage any massively coherent coalescence, but I see a need for strategic opposition. Voluntarily of course:-)
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 07:18 am
@Wilso,
Quote:
It matters to me because one belief I do hold strongly is that religion is the most malignant influence on the face of the earth.


Yes Wilso, this is exactly my point. If atheism is defined strictly as "someone who doesn't believe in any god or gods" then this statement of belief is not atheism. To link it with atheism is deceptive.

This hatred of anything religious is not atheism. There are lots of atheists who appreciate and respect religion.

I don't like your belief system Wilso. And that is why I am speaking up against any attempt to tie it to all of us who happen to not believe in god.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 07:24 am
@fresco,
Fresco,

Read Wilso's posts again and then answer this question.

How are Wilso's rants different than the rants of any other religionist? The Christians go around talking about how destructive Muslims are. The Muslims go around ranting about how evil the Jews are. The Jews go around telling us how evil the Muslims are.

Wilso is joining in with all the other religions say that he has the truth and that everyone else is "malignant". Wilso hates as many groups as the most strident Muslim or Christian fanatics hate.

If the definition of atheism is "someone who doesn't believe in god" then I have no problem with it. That definition applies to me.

If the definition of Atheism is "a defender of Universal Truth fighting against other malignant belief systems", then I am against it.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 07:25 am
@Frank Apisa,
yes, if you register for the census there are various categories you can choose from

Atheist
Freethinker
Humanist
Rationalist
Secularist
Agnostic
Non-Religious
Other

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2012 07:27 am
@djjd62,
DJ,

This group exists to be "Anti-Religious". Why can't they just be honest about that?

These other terms are dishonest.
 

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