Bertuzzi offers tearful apology

What has happened in recent days is that everyone has taken an isolated incident and attached everything that has happened in the whole league to it. The media has reported in a "worst case scenario" style and people have been talking as though Bertuzzi intended to harm Moore to this extent. It's ridiculous.

In the following article covering the event, one of the better ones, they still talk about how this kind of thing is a part of hockey and then reference an incident four years ago. With all the games played day in and day out, to have an event like this happen every four years cannot be considered "a part of the game" so much as it is an anomaly.

Personally I don't think you can compare a gloved punch to the head with a stick being swung at someone's head - in the latter there is obvious intent to injure and a weapon involved.

Link to some of the players comments...

It's not right for Bertuzzi to be punished to such an extent - he's not responsible for everything that goes on in the NHL - and because he's such a name doesn't mean that he should have to pay so dearly for everyone's sins on the ice.

Caprice, just saw your latest post...

If I threw a body check on someone in the street I could easily end up with an assault charget too. Should hitting come out of the game as well?

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Re: The "Incident"

Jer wrote:

It looked like a punch that was intended to goad Moore into a fight. (It was a gloved punch, they usually don't result in any injury at all.)

You have this a bit backwards. The NHL made it a penalty to hit someone with a gloved hand specifically because the back of the glove, made of hard plastic, is more dangerous than being hit with a bare hand. Doing so also protects the hands of the hitter alowing them to take a harder swing.

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Hockey Fights
Caprice,

You say that boxing is controlled...

Hockey fights generally occur between two willing participants who generally have an awful lot of experience with hockey fighting. Hockey fights generally last a matter of seconds and are broken up if anyone gets an unfair advantage. There is a code among the fighters in the league that you don't keep hitting someone when they've been comprimised - and they do that so they can come back and fight another day.

Most players in the NHL have come through the North American junior system where there are a lot more fights than in the NHL, so it's nothing new. The tough guys who make it to "the show" know there role the same way boxers do. 99.9% of the time hockey fights occur between two willing participants.

Violence in hockey, as far as I'm concerned is vicious with an intent to injure. Hockey fights are sport in the same way that boxing is.

Just my two cents...

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Jer: Your last question? My answer is yes. ALL violent behaviour needs to come out of the game.

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Hockey Gloves and other stuff...
Fishin',

I just ran downstairs to take a look at both mine and my brother's gloves. They smell - we wore them last night. They are prostyle gloves and there is foam around the entire outer shell of both sets of gloves with leather wrapped around it - the plastic is almost an inch into the glove and I have a hard time feeling it from the outside. To the point where I actually have to put all my weight on one finger to get through all the foam. The only hard part on the outside of either set of gloves is the thumb-piece.

I see gloved punches to start fights in the NHL on a regular basis and rarely does anything come of it - that's why this incident has created such a big deal - because rarely do grave consequences occur from this type of behaviour. If you shed your gloves and the other guy doesn't then you get a 5-minute fighting penalty and he doesn't - usually they start prodding each other with gloves on to keep it to a roughing penalty until there is an understanding that it's time to "shed the mitts".

Caprice,

I agree that violence shouldn't be a part of the game. As I said, I don't see hockey-fighting and body checking as violence.

***Please note that my comments are dealing specifically with professional hockey - not minor hockey.

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Hockey fighting not violence? Hmmm...please explain.

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Re: Hockey Fights

Jer wrote:

Hockey fights are sport in the same way that boxing is.

Just my two cents...

I wish a boxer would come in here to debate you on that point.

Why does fighting start in hockey games? Don't you think it all begins from immature anger?

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I think fishin is right about the glove...hitting someone with a hockey glove on is more harmful. Those bitches are pretty heavy..and hard. They don't throw the gloves off to HURT the other guy...why don't they just hit each other with the sticks then?

My take: it was a cheap shot. Happens all the time, except in this instance the victim got injured pretty bad(I heard he'll be back too, by the way). So they'll use this as an example. Bertuzzi didn't mean to break the guy's neck. He shouldn't be banned for life. Yea, he should be punished...whether the NHL is too violent is another thing. Fighting has always been a part of hockey, and the fans want it that way.

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Re: Hockey Fights

caprice wrote:

Why does fighting start in hockey games? Don't you think it all begins from immature anger?

Uh, yea. It's because they're "immature."

It's a very competitive, physical sport. Emotions rise high. Fights break out.

I've also read an interview from a NHL player where he said sometimes they fight on purpose to make things interesting. It's such a normal part of the game, sometimes it's just common reaction from a player to start throwing punches when things get rough.

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Violence: From Dictionary.com
Caprice,

The following quote was taken from dictionary.com so that we can define what we are talking about:

Quote:

vi·o·lence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lns)
n.
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.

For our purposes - I believe that we need to use the following definitions together:

Quote:

Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.

Abusive or unjust exercise of power.

If you use the first definition for violence, then both parties involved in a hockey fight are being violent. But if we incorporate the second definition [abusive/unjust excercise of power] then it can be said that when two parties are involved in a fight there is no unjust excercise of power - they have agreed to fight, making it just.

From dictionary.com again:

Quote:

sport ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spôrt, sprt)
n.

Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.

-If a player tees off on someone when they are in a compromised position, then it can be considered an unjust excercise of power - violence.

-Using the stick as a weapon - Violence.
-Hitting a guy from behind when he's unaware of your presence or in a compromised position - Violence.

-Looking a guy in the eyes, dancing around, and then engaging in a fight - Sport. (See May and Worrell's fights from Monday)
-Bodychecking a guy as he comes down the wing - Sport.

These guys know the rules of the game. They are paid to play by those rules.

Most players say that if fighting is taken out of the game the sticks will be used more often. They have pointed to the instigator rule as the reason why the sticks have come up a lot in recent history. I would rather see guys fighting than an increase in the stickwork.

Hockey fights have a set of rules/customs and are engaged in competitively - so I say sport. The intent in a hockey fight, similar to boxing, is to win the battle, not hurt your opponent.

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Gloved Punch.
Slappy & Fishin',

I'm sorry for not making this clearer. When I said "gloved punch" I was referring to a glove to helmet punch - as opposed to a glove to skin punch. Glove to skin punches are extremely rare - so the pictures in my head when making my statements were of glove to helmet punches. My mistake for not taking into account that you guys can't see the pictures in my head Wink

Cheers,

-Jer-

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caprice wrote:

wenchilina: Let's see, you have referred to me as emotional and childish and have further commented on how some of my statements detracted from interesting conversation.

Before you point the finger at me for personal attacks, perhaps you should consider how your posts have been coming across.

Get over yourself.

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I am a casual fan of the NHL, but I know how things work. Bertuzzi is one of the top players in the league correct? Why would one of the league's superstars carry out this outrageous act rather than a Vancouver version of Tai Domi?

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CotL,

I think it's because it wasn't meant to be an outrageous act - it was meant to start a fight.

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Why even put your star in that situation? How many fights do you think Gretzky and Lemuiex have been in? And even the ones they were in, I guarantee that it didn't take long until a goon got in there.

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Re: Hockey Fights

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Uh, yea. It's because they're "immature."

It's a very competitive, physical sport. Emotions rise high. Fights break out.

I've also read an interview from a NHL player where he said sometimes they fight on purpose to make things interesting. It's such a normal part of the game, sometimes it's just common reaction from a player to start throwing punches when things get rough.

I didn't say the players were immature, their response to their anger is.

I read an article in the paper a few months back about the origin of the Stanley Cup. The author of the article believed that Lord Stanley would be appalled if he could see what his beloved sport has evolved into.

I still say it should be about sportsmanship and with the money they make, they should be able to hold back. I just don't see that any fights/brawls/violence should be tolerated as a normal part of the game. For the yahoos that enjoy watching that stuff...well....I won't get into my opinions on that. Wink

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Child, not all hockey players like fight but those that do usually throw down the gloves after the first few punches, and the helmets are off. Hockey is a contact sport and people love the fights. I read somewhere, more fans pay attention to the fights than any other part of the game. Playoffs with standing.

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Here's my take. They should do one of two things.

1. They should enforce a no-fighting policy and see how long before the league goes belly-up.

2. They should allow sticks, skates, and any other weapon they can slip into their uniforms to be used at any point in the game, without any penalty. Now that would be worth watching.

The sport is a waste. If you want to see guys fighting, watch boxing. If you want to see a bunch of guys skating around, put on your little pink skirt and watch figure skating.

There, my hat is now officially in the ring.

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Them's fightin' words k.c.!

*takes his hat and tears it up into little tiny teenie weenie itty bitty pieces*

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Caprice did you read what I wrote? I stated exactly what you are saying. That the violence being acceptable in the game and even considered part of the game is the major issue, not Bertuzzi's individual circumstance.

I don't agree that Bertuzzi should be banned permanently. That is unfair. It is unfair to change a punishment after an infraction occurred. If there are rules in place that say, if you trip a player, you get a two minute penalty. Then a player trips another and the officials decide, no we changed our mind, the penalty is now ten minutes. That is not fair. If the penalty is not severe enough, you change the rule, ensure all participants are aware of the new rule and when if becomes effective and then it is fair to enforce.

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Bertuzzi offers tearful apology

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