American Atheists Barred from holding Office

this thread didn't assume so much as max had. it was clever though

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@maxdancona,

I understand that there is probably a bit of sarcasm intended in that post; But I still agree with Setanta's take on it.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

This thread assumes that the Atheist in question does want to become a liar and a hypocrite.

If he didn't then he would choose an honest profession like nursing or teaching.

Your opinion is popular, but I disagree with it. Public service can be an honest profession, and often is.

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@maxdancona,

I have not taken you as off the beam before, Max. But this post of yours is hard to believe.
Many of us who are not religious are your teachers or nurses or surgeons or accountants. Or mothers or fathers. Or politicians.

I was late to get the sarcasm.

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Do atheists believe in heaven or hell? On earth that is.

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Even if some politicians are liars and cheats, they are a necessary evil. It is never justified to assume someone is a liar and a cheat absent evidence. It is childishly naive to dismiss all politicians as invariably corrupt.

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@Setanta,

It is impossible for a politician who doesn't lie to get elected.

There is something about each one of us that would disqualify us for office. We want public officials that meet a bar that is impossible to meet. If you are trying to win an election, you are going to have to change (or each hide) these things, and you are going to have to mislead enough to convince opposite sides that you agree with them. In any marketing campaign, truths need to be shaded, and the fact that in an election you have a adversary makes truth each more problematic.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Carter... you can find lies each one of them told.

The ability to lie is might just be a good thing. Maybe our system that requires lies to win is a way to test for the people with the drive and wits to do the job.

This is why I have no problem if my dentist, or florist or the teacher for my kids is an atheist. But a politician.... that's a different story.

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@maxdancona,

I disagree.

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@edgarblythe,

Objection! People have the right to religious freedom!

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@maxdancona,

Bulllshit! Atheists have rights too. The Constitution says that there shall be no religious test imposed.

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@wmwcjr,

Thumbs up for you.

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@maxdancona,

That is simply not true.
I know two politicians very well and they are not liars.
I know three others less well, can't say for sure they haven't lied at some point, but I don't assume that from what I do know.

I understand the reasons for your cynicism but your broad brush conviction is, as Setanta said, essentially childish/fanciful.

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@ossobuco,

Agreed.

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@edgarblythe,

Hmmm. In general terms, I'm inclined to agree with max. I've seen perfectly decent and nice guys go into politics; the only way they could stay in was by becoming just like the people they opposed. Politics corrupts, no two ways about it.

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@Lustig Andrei,

I can see that generally, but the two people I know well hadn't larger ambitions in the first place and stayed with that.
Ah, I've remembered one more. Now there was a woman who was consistently herself.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Carter... you can find lies each one of them told.

I guess Reagan didn't know when he was lying.

Rap

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@raprap,

Iran Contra alone makes for a treasure trove of lies. Smile

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Interesting...

Quote:

The number of members of Congress who don’t identify with any particular religion is on the rise, according to an analysis by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

In the 96th Congress (1979-80), not a single member of the House or Senate said they didn’t belong to any particular faith, didn’t know or refused to disclose their religion. But in the new 113th Congress, 10 members fall under that category.

That’s twice as many as in the 111th Congress (2009-10).

Pew notes there’s still a great disparity between the percentage of U.S. adults and the percentage of members of Congress who don’t identify with any particular religion.
More

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@tsarstepan,

Tsar Stepan wrote:

I would like to see how they mean test this condition to see if someone qualify for holding office.

Good point.

Legislating beliefs is like establishing "thought crimes".
What if one of us apparently untrustworthy atheists, lies under oath about our beliefs(thoughts), but not about any actual activities (like going to church) to get into office.
Then under some "super-polygraph" analysis it is determined that I don't actually believe in a god.
Will I be found guilty of perjury?
Is it criminal to lie about your own mental state?

If it is perjury I would suggest that those under oath be very careful in how they refer to judges. You better not refer to them as "Your honor" unless you actually think the judge is honorable (which I hope they are).

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

This thread assumes that the Atheist in question does want to become a liar and a hypocrite.
If he didn't then he would choose an honest profession like nursing or teaching

Oh dear!
I am actually a registered nurse, and an atheist (not registered).
I don't know what to make of my honorability?
Laughing

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American Atheists Barred from holding Office

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