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CIA Chief Petraeus resigns as result of extra-marital affair

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 02:25 pm
@ehBeth,
Well we all have rights however once more to attacked a person character for expressing an opinion to the courts and even implying that doing so in some manner should disqualify that person from holding high office is just wrong by any moral code I had ever hear of.

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:07 pm
@BillRM,
You go ahead and tell the military that they shouldn't advise their soldiers and officers on how to behave.

I'm sure you'll get a tremendous reception.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:11 pm
@ehBeth,
He'll be laughed out of the room. Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:59 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
You go ahead and tell the military that they shouldn't advise their soldiers and officers on how to behave.

I'm sure you'll get a tremendous reception
.

You mean that the military are going to tell their people that they are not allow to address a court like any other citizen over a custody issue at whatever the level that the person happen to be at in the military?

You do give up some rights even constitution rights as a member of the arm forces but not that right as far as I am aware of!!!!!!!!!!!!

So where did that silly comment come from?

Enzo
 
  5  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 04:30 pm
@BillRM,
There is no problem in addressing a court if you're powerful or rich, the problem comes when corruption in the form of bias is involved in the justice system where judges favor the person who has acquired some politically powerful backing on their side, just so that the person can advance their personal interest, or win against some little helpless nobody.

Are you naive enough to not see the potential for bias when Petreus and Allen, all of a sudden, would give their testimony and pen separate letters in the case of Kelley's sister?

BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:40 pm
@Enzo,
Quote:
Are you naive enough to not see the potential for bias when Petreus and Allen, all of a sudden, would give their testimony and pen separate letters in the case of Kelley's sister?



The military or the CIA have no control over a state court family judge or influence other then the influence that any citizen had of high public standing have and the content of the letters themselves. Footnote the letters did not change the outcome of the case in the favor of the woman as a matter of fact.

Now of course if was a personal favor to the lady and her sister but there is nothing wrong with that as long as the letters did no contain any known falsehoods.

Oh, the society web in this society does not cover just the rich and as a middle class person if I needed similar letters I could likely count on a state senator and a chief of police of a major city and so on that I happen to know. Hell at one time this web of connections would have included a billionaire. One hell of a nice person.

I remember a Florida governor helping out a father in searching for his missing daughter and the complains he then received for doing so in this one case instead of others.

His reply was that this father were the only one who ever contact him and ask for his personal aid!!!!!!!!




spendius
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:51 pm
@BillRM,
It was a ghastly error of judgement Bill. Face up to the fact.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:53 pm
@firefly,
@ not a Cap'n Bill



Quote:
the letters were unwise and inappropriate, according to military and intelligence analysts who say the expressions of support for Khawam have become symbols of questionable behavior by two of the nation's top warriors...

The letters from Petraeus and Allen - written as the FBI was uncovering the scandal - suggest they did not follow military and intelligence guidelines that warn senior officers to avoid linking their official work with personal activities in their civilian lives.


Military lawyers would have told Petraeus and Allen that "the intervention of someone of your level in a pending litigation is going to be a big deal and get you into hot water," Brooks said. "... Other people's marriages are really complicated. Just the words ‘custody battle' in court should have been enough."

Retired Colonel Chuck Allen, professor of leadership and cultural studies at the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania, said senior officers are told to avoid such situations because "it might look as though you are trying to impress or pull rank on somebody who really isn't under your purview. What you don't want is to imply an endorsement by the institution."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/16/us-usa-generals-tampa-idUSBRE8AF03K20121116
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:54 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
It was a ghastly error of judgement Bill. Face up to the fact.


Not at all there is nothing improper in any way in writing those letters.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:55 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

You mean that the military are going to tell their people <snip>


the military tells "their people" how to behave in many situations

spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:58 pm
@BillRM,
Why are Americans so adamant about not losing an argument?

I take losing an argument as an important educational step forward. And I have lost a good few in my time. One was with a little girl who reminded me that she was only five.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:01 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
It was a ghastly error of judgement Bill. Face up to the fact.


Not at all there is nothing improper in any way in writing those letters.

I think that this is questionable, but the assertion that it is wrong because some might conclude that the Army wanted a particular result in a personal matter is BS. Those who go out of their way to help the Army, as by all accounts this woman in FL did, have a right to expect that the Army will at least occasionally go out of its way for them. the only question is whether this was a good time to do so.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:02 pm
@ehBeth,
Well it nice that unnamed intelligence analysts do not wish generals to take the chance of annoying the Fireflies of the world.

Now what in the hell would intelligence guidelines or analysts have anything to do with writing such letters?

I could see how such letters might be of concern to military lawyers but once more not analysts.



cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:04 pm
@ehBeth,
Some of those "instructions" to military personnel also depends on what branch of the service they belong. I think the Marines and Army are more strict about rank; the Navy coming next, and the Air Force as "last" to enforce rank.

I remember hearing a lot of jokes about Army ranks, and how they treat each other even when someone outranks another by just a few days or weeks.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:11 pm
@BillRM,
they're not flipping unnamed - you're too lazy to follow the link



follow the link - there are names there - as there were when Firefly originally posted the article from Reuters
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There's the joke about America that there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. After all being middle-class is about nothing else than being a chief. And 80% of Americans are muddle-class I heard.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:30 pm
Quote:
When a Florida shock jock threatened to "deep fat fry" a Quran earlier this year, Gen. John Allen, the commander of U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan, and CIA Director David Petraeus both reached out to Tampa socialite Jill Kelley to help tamp down what they saw as a potential threat to the safety of U.S. troops, according to emails released by the city of Tampa.
In the emails, Kelly -- indicating she was acting at the behest of the high level U.S. government officials -- asked Tampa Mayor Bob Buckhorn to intervene and get the radio disc jockey to stand down.
"I have Petraeus & Allen both emailing me about getting this dealt with," Kelley wrote to Buckhorn in a March 7, email. The day before, Kelley mentioned similar requests to Buckhorn from both Allen and Vice Adm. Robert Harward, deputy commander of the U.S. Central Command in Tampa. "I just got off the phone with Gen. Allen & Adm Harward," she wrote. "I'm going to need your assistance, vice versa with the potential crises we'll be dealing with."

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/16/15224380-jill-kelley-asked-tampa-mayor-to-help-silence-bubba-the-love-sponge?lite

i can imagine a good case being made that the army should help this woman:

http://www.baypop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/kelley_slider.jpg
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye can you see any family judge that would think for one mill-second that those letters in support of the lady would indicate that the army or the CIA for that matter have a position on the custody of a child!!!!!!!!!!

I can not picture any judge being that stupid and in the ends the judge in this case had no problem disregarding those letters.

What bullshit is being thrown at these two gentlemen.

Oh and why would intelligence guidelines cover the issue of writing such letters it all so must bullshit...............
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:38 pm
My father was a commanding officer twice, and I've nothing to say about that as I was three or five. We never got to talk about all that, big loss to me now.

Somehow I am doubting things are suddenly different, but I am vacant of knowledge. I don't just automatically despise Petraeus. I'll agree he has been goofy/unwise and being goofy is a no no and unwise is alluring. I'll also agree that from my reading he seems to have gotten into the Prince role.

Me, I think this whole thing has to do with the military code of conduct, and whether it makes sense.

As it happens, I just finished reading The General's Daughter by Nelson DeMille.
I didn't read the forward stuff until I read the book. I don't read the pabulum reviews, and I don't read back covers past about a sentence. I don't read prefaces by smarts until I've read the book.

Turns out that DeMille addressed this in his preface, including the military code.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 06:42 pm
@BillRM,
Well, it certainly must warm your heart to know that a woman who makes numerous false accusations of abuse against a man can rely on top military brass and the CIA director, no less, to attest to her character. Laughing And you don't think their public support of someone like that reflected any questionable judgment on their part. Laughing So they ignored the character of the woman they were endorsing, what's the big deal? Laughing

How many sides of the fence can you sit on at once?

I guess all your ranting about innocent men being victimized by false accusations of abuse was all a sham. Such women obviously merit the support of the most prominent and powerful men when they move in the same social circles they do.



 

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