19
   

Route to the sea.

 
 
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:19 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

If you don't think this man sucks, then take a big look at what the Stock Market it doing today...That says it all.

Better yet, look at the DJIA over Obama's entire term. That's a 68% gain in less than four years. Talk about saying it all.
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:23 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

What success would that be? I wonder if I will agree with any of them.

On the foreign policy front:
Barack Obama: 1
Osama Bin Laden: 3000+


Fixed that for ya, or did you forget?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:24 pm
@McGentrix,
I'm not JTT but man I am so tempted to really fix that with the number of people killed by Americans in the past 11 years.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:28 pm
@ehBeth,
Just making a point beth, chill.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:29 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

tsarstepan wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

What success would that be? I wonder if I will agree with any of them.

On the foreign policy front:
Barack Obama: 1
Osama Bin Laden: 3000+


Fixed that for ya, or did you forget?


Did you forget who was responsible for that fuckup of American security? Hint, it wasn't Obama who allowed it to happen, by ignoring warnings he was given by national security experts...

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

tsarstepan wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

What success would that be? I wonder if I will agree with any of them.

On the foreign policy front:
Barack Obama: 1
Osama Bin Laden: 3000+


Fixed that for ya, or did you forget?


Did you forget who was responsible for that fuckup of American security? Hint, it wasn't Obama who allowed it to happen, by ignoring warnings he was given by national security experts...

Cycloptichorn


Yay for quote bubbles!

By your logic then, Obama ignored the warnings given by national security experts on the attack in Libya. Is Obama responsible for that then?
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:34 pm


Is Cyclo trying to blame Bush again?

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:36 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

tsarstepan wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

What success would that be? I wonder if I will agree with any of them.

On the foreign policy front:
Barack Obama: 1
Osama Bin Laden: 3000+


Fixed that for ya, or did you forget?


Did you forget who was responsible for that fuckup of American security? Hint, it wasn't Obama who allowed it to happen, by ignoring warnings he was given by national security experts...

Cycloptichorn


Yay for quote bubbles!

By your logic then, Obama ignored the warnings given by national security experts on the attack in Libya. Is Obama responsible for that then?


Yes, he was. The Buck Stops at the Top. That's what being president is all about.

And, in fact, Obama said exactly that in the second debate - did you miss that part?

Cycloptichorn
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 02:54 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Miller wrote:

If you don't think this man sucks, then take a big look at what the Stock Market it doing today...That says it all.

Better yet, look at the DJIA over Obama's entire term. That's a 68% gain in less than four years. Talk about saying it all.

It turns out the reason the market is reacting badly is ... Romney's comments on Bernanke! Talk of his replacement with a Romney candidate has the market worried about lack of inexpensive capital for business expansion. That article also pointed out that Romney's strong showing in the first debate caused the market to sell off, not surge anticipating a Romney resurgence.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 03:06 pm
@Miller,
If for any reason you profess of having any genuine and intimate knowledge of what causes the Stock Exchange to twitch, please spare us all as experts have failed miserably at forecasting and explaining that. I see such attempts as a red herring. The results of this debate won't convince many (if any) voters to vote one way or the other.

That 'rookie' and his Administration eliminated the leadership of Al Qadeh..killing Bin Laden. That carries weight with much of the electorate and negates your attempts at invalidation of his 'weight'.

I speak to EU friends all the time. Informal survery of Swiss friends and their friends feel pro Obama as do Germans and some Brits.

No one here is stating that Obama was not a rookie on international policy when he entered the office. At the time the American public rejected McCain and Palin as poseurs. Regardless of how your individual bias leans, it is clear that he is not a rookie now.

My point is clearly stated ...and restated... that IMHO it's not the time to switch horses in mid-stream as there's far too much is at stake. Last night Romney spent a great deal of time (when he wasn't flip-flopping and reversing himself) agreeing with Obama and the Administration on international policies.

The impact on the Stock Exchange is great from the current international crises (and speculative investors) as the heat in Middle East - particularly as things are reaching a fever pitch with the civil war in Syria spilling over in deadly fashion to neighboring nations.

Powers that be are now posturing to figure out how to be (or not be) involved is settling or intervening in the crisis/crises. Certainly it's arguable whether or not this current state of events has/have had far more impact than any impact from this final debate.

Furthermore, there's often at this time of the year some significant drag effect as the yearly anniversary approaches of 2 of the largest corrections/market crash(es) at the end of October.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 03:21 pm

Obama can travel any route he wants and swim in any sea after Romney defeats him in November.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 03:34 pm
@raprap,
As well as the Persian Gulf, and the Caspian sea to the north. This Romney guy is not too bright. Cool
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 05:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
What does being "responsible" mean?

It's all well and good to accept responsibility if there are no consequences for which to be held responsible.

four dead Americans because of a massive screw-up and Obama and how is Obama's responsibility mainfest?

Will he resign?

No, he will just grudgingly accept a slight smear on his self-imagined halo.

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 06:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Okay, and how, exactly, is this different than Bush's massive screw-up? I have yet to see any of you right-wingers call him out on failing to protect the country, ever. This makes your criticism ring more than a little hollow, and also makes one suspect that you are - like Romney admitted - simply looking for an exploitable event with which to criticize the administration.

Cycloptichorn
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 06:27 pm
@jcboy,
The Caspian is a salt lake--it has no outflow and is the largest lake in the world. Although it borders several nations it has no direct connection to the world's oceans.

Rap
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 07:43 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Did anyone ask the Bush Administration to increase security in Northeastern airports for months before 9/11? Did al-Qaida attack NYC and DC 30 days or so before 9/11? Did the Clinton Administration provide the incoming Bush Administration with intelligence (credible or otherwise) that al-Qaida was in the process of pulling off a major attack on the homeland in the months to come?

If they did, one needs to ask, why didn't they do something about it while they had power?

If you can't blame Bush for Obama's failures then change the subject and blame him for something...anything.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 07:56 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Clinton did warn Bush.

New Gov. Documents Show President Bush Ignored Numerous Warnings Prior to 9/11 Attack

Quote:
Two weeks ago at the Republican National Convention, former Bush administration National Security Advisor Condi Rice attacked the Obama administration for not taking action in Syria.

However, Rice did not mention how in 2001 the Bush White House failed to prevent terrorist attacks from Osama bin Laden, despite being warned numerous times.


Rap

Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 08:06 pm
@raprap,
What did he warn him of?

Bin-Laden is a really bad guy who hates us or we have credible intelligence that bin-Laden has a plan in the works to lauch major attacks on key US cities within the next 10 months and utilizing airliners?

Edit: What do you think Bush could have or should have done with this warning?
Obama could have responded to a direct request for increased security in the Benghazi consulate with increased security.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 08:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
My Little Caterpillar

The answer is yes--Clinton made multiple warnings that Bin Laden and El Qaeda were actively planning a terrorist attack in the US. Something that was confirmed by the CIA/NSA.

Bush/Cheney chose to ignore the warnings.

Quote:
The New York Times reports there were actually a series of warnings between May and August of 2001, which the Bush administration ignored.

On May 1, 2001, the Bush White House was told by the CIA that "a group presently in the United States" was planning a terrorist attack, reports the Daily Mail.

On June 22, 2001, the Bush White House was told an Al Qaeda attack could be "imminent."

However, the neoconservatives in the Pentagon told the Bush White House that the CIA had been fooled into believing bin Laden was preparing an attack to distract the U.S. from Saddam Hussein.

In response, the CIA prepared a brief on June 29, 2001 with over a page of evidence, including an interview with a journalist, in which aides to Bin Laden warned of an upcoming attack. That paper also said: "The U.S. is not the target of a disinformation campaign by Osama bin Laden."

The CIA sent the Bush White House another warning on July 1, 2001 which said the terrorist attack had been delayed, but would soon take place.

President Bush was told on July 24 that the attack was still being prepared, but had been postponed by a few months.

President Bush requested a more detailed analysis of al Qaeda, which was the famous briefing created by Richard Clarke and given to the Bush White House on August 6, 2001.


Rap
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2012 08:36 pm
@raprap,
OK - What should the Bush administration have done?

(Not to mention, what had the Clinton Administration done?)

More importantly, let's say Bush completely screwed the pooch on 9/11 and should be hung by his thumbs in Times Square, what difference does it make to what Obama should have done and did (and did not do) as respects Benghazi?
0 Replies
 
 

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