Proposed Missouri Constitutional Amendment on Religious Freedom

@farmerman,

Quote:

Im thinking that one way to set up a case that could be adjuticated would be to have a kid sue his parents.

The KGB just encouraged kids to grass on their parents.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

Without a good basic science education, there is a group of students from Missouri who won't be able to get into premium universities - which will then impact their employment opportunities.

How many students do you want in premium universities? How many employment opportunities are there in the occupations you approve of?

Quote:

There's a limit to how many English grads the world needs, and that limit was reached decades ago.

There might be a limit to how many grads the world needs.

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@farmerman,

I can easily think up grounds for everybody suing their parents.

Quote:

They **** you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

This Be The Verse. Philip Larkin.

Of course fm, in his usual way, will feel that his grounds for suing are the only ones. He's so subjective isn't he? Not a bit scientific.

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@spendius,

1. few
2. many
3. agreed

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@ehBeth,

I didn't mean the manner in which you approve of garbage collectors and crossing sweepers.

If a state of over 6 million starts praying more it does not mean that the IQ distribution will be altered. Their inability to outline the principles of evolution on one side of a beer mat with a marker pen won't alter it either.

So if you disqualify them from universities you are foregoing the high IQ segment. It follows, if university place numbers are kept constant for business reasons, that delving into the lower IQ ranges of those who don't pray (15% in Missouri I gather), will be required and you end up with university entrance being not praying.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

For intellectuals I mean. You don't get to be an intellectual by declaring you are one: either directly, using the RIV or deploying the cachet of certain words whether wholly or partially understood or even not understood at all.

Like genotype for example. I only need lie in the bath and think "Wow--I'm a ******* genotype" and I can titter for ages. The geosphere is another.

"I'm a ******* genotype
Stuck in the geosphere
My Mama dun love me
And my Daddy ain't here," You have to rejig the accents in "geosphere"

You are not only a genotype, you can also claim to be a citizen of a has been island nation, that had a glorious empire for a few hundred years, and then lost out to more industrious genotypes, in my opinion.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

spendius wrote:
Think of the atheists getting all the best paid jobs

I was just considering something along that line. Without a good basic science education, there is a group of students from Missouri who won't be able to get into premium universities - which will then impact their employment opportunities.

There's a limit to how many English grads the world needs, and that limit was reached decades ago.

To get into a good university, one only has to answer tests correctly. One is not interrogated as to what one believes.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

I didn't mean the manner in which you approve of garbage collectors and crossing sweepers.

If a state of over 6 million starts praying more it does not mean that the IQ distribution will be altered. Their inability to outline the principles of evolution on one side of a beer mat with a marker pen won't alter it either.

So if you disqualify them from universities you are foregoing the high IQ segment. It follows, if university place numbers are kept constant for business reasons, that delving into the lower IQ ranges of those who don't pray (15% in Missouri I gather), will be required and you end up with university entrance being not praying.

To rise in an organization one does not have to be a rocket scientist. One should be deferent to one's superiors, and able to communicate with subordinates and peers, not to mention one's superiors.

Plus, there are bible colleges that graduate students that get good paying jobs, since many organizations want employees that have Christian values.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

You are not only a genotype, you can also claim to be a citizen of a has been island nation, that had a glorious empire for a few hundred years, and then lost out to more industrious genotypes, in my opinion.

So what? It's pretty good here. It had nothing to do with genotypes. Our genotypes invented the Industrial Revolution. We handed on the baton having run our leg.

What you see on TV is not England. I don't suppose what we see is America either. I bet there were more people playing on bowling greens today than there were in the Olympic stadium. Or fishing. Or leaning on pub bars. Or gardening. Or lying on sun loungers.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

You are not only a genotype, you can also claim to be a citizen of a has been island nation, that had a glorious empire for a few hundred years, and then lost out to more industrious genotypes, in my opinion.

So what? It's pretty good here. It had nothing to do with genotypes. Our genotypes invented the Industrial Revolution. We handed on the baton having run our leg.

What you see on TV is not England. I don't suppose what we see is America either. I bet there were more people playing on bowling greens today than there were in the Olympic stadium. Or fishing. Or leaning on pub bars. Or gardening. Or lying on sun loungers. And shopping.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

To get into a good university, one only has to answer tests correctly. One is not interrogated as to what one believes.

if one doesn't study the full range of sciences, the ability to answer the science questions correctly will be reduced - and that means MIT isn't going to be sending as many welcome notices to Missouri

it's all to the good as far as I'm concerned

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@spendius,

this is the bit I have an enormous problem with

spendius wrote:

It follows, if university place numbers are kept constant for business reasons

universities have reduced their admission standards too far - I'd like to see university admission #s dropped by more than 50 % - get more people going to trade schools and learning something useful

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@ehBeth,

They just need a better business plan Beth.

What does a poor university do with X places and only dimwits to take them. It isn't going to put itself out of business in order to uphold any precious principles. No Madam!! Not a chance.

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@ehBeth,

U Mo has a much better mining ngineering school than MIT

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@farmerman,

Things continue the way they are - that has is going to turn into used to.

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@spendius,

I don't have any problem with about half the universities in the U.S. shutting down completely. The buildings can be used for trade schools or something similar.

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@ehBeth,

I hope not. I sincerely hope not. Still, I dont see where a case can be cobbled together to get this overturned.

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@ehBeth,

most U's are already trade schools. What do you think engineering programs are?

On the rise are programs called "Recreational Sciences" cooking film making or hotel management. U if Delaware offers a program in ICE SCIENCE (its o;ympic skating for which the kid can get an MA). Penn State and Cornell have HUUGE "DAiry SCiences "rograms and brewery sciences.
Liberal ARts are where the compression is. Art departments,(except for CGI and comp graphics)
Around here, many of the U's have satellite campii where they have their trades and service skills programs offered.

languages, poli sci, etc are all in retreat

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@farmerman,

Hey Hey Hey Farmerman I learned a lot at Purdue--Some pretty hard science and mathematics for sure.

And 40 years ago there were 'underwater basket weaving' majors.

BTW I remember a polymer science class (chemistry and engineering properties) where one of my study group partners was a pretty graduate student in Textile Sciences. I think she picked the group with several ChEs because her chemistry was weak.

BTW one has to remember that the Land Grant College Act of 1864 was the result of Lincoln recognizing that reconstruction was going to require a lot of scientifically educated farmers and engineers, not lawyers, mbas, investment bankers, fine artists or poets, scientifically educated farmers and engineers.

IOW what has changed since then?

Rap

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What I don't understand is why *any* student should be able to be excluded from state curriculum coursework.

I don't need a Christian kid to believe in evolution, but they should know what the theory is. If they don't, no meaningful skepticism about evolution makes any sense at all.

Similarly, I think of the range of economic theories. In an economics class, should I only be taught the economic theories that my parents agree with? No. And learning all theories, doesn't mean I believe them. It only means I know the details.

I think the religious exemptions on participation were already stupid prior to this. The compromise was already good enough. Teachers offered alternative assignments, etc.

A
R
T

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Proposed Missouri Constitutional Amendment on Religious Freedom

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