DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2012 09:52 pm
@firefly,
Fingerprints and DNA are, indeed, examples of biometrics. Glad to see you're able to keep up.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2012 09:52 pm
Poof! make my post appear!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Aug, 2012 01:06 am
@DrewDad,
Our ID-cards do have (at least the new ones) fingerprints on it (but no DNA).
Otherwise, you couldn't use them e.g. when crossing the borders ...
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 11:16 am
Judge upholds the law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/pennsylvania-voter-id-law_n_1778612.html
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 02:37 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The diff between US and any othr country law is that ours is LOCALLY ADMINISTERED (U uses a national card). Its also administered by the party toadies.

So far, the only instances of PA voter frauds to "steal" elections had been perped using Absentee ballots. Ironic aint it?

Its now under appeal to the State Supreme COurt.

The GOP has not been quiet about how the voter ID (the fact that its been enacted close to a , major election) will help the GOP split up the Pa vote and maybe send it to the Republicans. (They hope)

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 10:14 pm
@farmerman,
The tactic being used in Ohio is early voting for republican districts only. Their attempts at loading the election to their favor by playing these games only shows how dangerous they are to this country. Why don't they just use their guns?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 06:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Why don't they just use their guns?


Because we have guns also................
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2012 10:15 am
@BillRM,
The Pa Supreme Court will reply on Wed whether it can (or will) hear the appeal made against District JudgeRobt Simpson who upheld the photo ID Law.

Interstingly enough, the Pa SUpreme Court is made up of 6 judges half GOP and half DEMS. If they decide to hear this one, I feel that the decision of the validity for this whole law will be based upon the vote of Judge Ron Castille (who, is branded by the teabaggers as a RINO) Castille singularly dumped the Pa redistricting issue back to the lkegislature because he felt that the original reeistrictee map was all Gerrymandered into place by the GOP. (There was a 20 mile segment of Lancaster County that was adjoined to nearby Berks County via a 200 ft wide right-of-way defined by US Rt 222. ). This was repeated in several counties in the state where the GOP wanted to defeat the DEM majorities held in certain areas.
Judge Castille has already gone on the record to castdoubt on the "Honorable motives" assereted by the GOP majority. He feels (on the record) that this whole photo ID thing is a vote grab that uses a possible extension of "poll taxation" It turns out that there are only 70 DMV sites across the states 67 counties. Several Counties (like Bucks Berks Lancaster Philadelphia, Washington Butler Lehigh Monroe Center , etc)have multiple DMV sites and therefore, several counties in the deep mountains (like Wyoming Potter Allegheny Union etc etc) HAVE NONE. SO the ride (remember there are thousands of old folks who dont even drive who are in this condition)> These old folks and new citizens and college kids in boony County Universitries like SLippery Rock or Juniata, will have to gather up all the needed ID info and make at least 2 tripw to the DMV center closest by. TheReading Eagle did a "salesmans map" using linear algebra, and they found that the average round trip length for these counties was about 102 miles .
Judge Castille has hinted that (he said all this before the case was appealed) he doubted the good intentions as stated in the legislation. He felt that, instead of preventing fraud, this whole law was preventing legitimate voting by folks who would be inconvenienced enough to say screw it.
Where Catile stopped in his rant was to not speculate whether this was disenfranchisement or not.
SO, in conclusion, The Pa WUpreme court is 3 to 3 Dems v Republicans and with one REpublican an avowed RINO. COuld be intyeresting if the Court wants to hear this one.

I will try to post anything that pops up that may be a little more obscure to the national coverage of this brew ha haa
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2012 10:37 am
@farmerman,
Thanks for the info Farmerman and is it not nice that our courts at least at the states level tend to vote on parties lines not the law?

I do not know what the solution would be and direct votes from the people have problems big time also.

In the last election there was ten repeat ten judges races and it took me hours to do even light research on who these twenty plus people happen to be that wish to be judges.

Somehow I do not think that most voters even do this **** poor due diligence that I did.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2012 10:53 am
@BillRM,
I hope the Pa SUpremes de cide to hear it because itll be bigass precedent setting. SOmething that Pa does will have a greater impact than , say, Indiana
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2012 11:39 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/texas-voter-id-law-struck-down/2012/08/30/4a07e270-f2ad-11e1-adc6-87dfa8eff430_story.html

Texas voter ID law struck down


Washington Post A federal court on Thursday blocked a controversial new voter ID law in Texas, ruling that the state failed to show that the law would not harm the voting rights of minorities.

The three-judge panel in the historic case said that evidence also showed that costs of obtaining a voter ID would fall most heavily on poor African Americans and Hispanics in Texas.

.Evidence submitted by Texas to prove that its law did not discriminate was “unpersuasive, invalid, or both,” wrote David. S. Tatel, a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, in the panel’s 56-page opinion.

The ruling will likely have political implications in the coming elections. Republicans and Democrats have been arguing over whether increasingly tough voter ID laws discriminate against African Americans and Hispanics.

Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott said that the state will appeal Thursday’s ruling to the Supreme Court, which is the next stop in a voting rights case.

“Today’s decision is wrong on the law and improperly prevents Texas from implementing the same type of ballot integrity safeguards that are employed by Georgia and Indiana — and were upheld by the Supreme Court,” Abbott said in a statement.

Texas is the largest state covered by Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, which requires federal approval or “preclearance” of any voting changes in states that have a history of discrimination. Because of Texas’s discrimination history, the voter ID law signed last year by its Republican governor, Rick Perry, had to be cleared by the Justice Department. The department blocked the law in March, saying it would endanger minority voting rights. Texas sued the department, leading to a week-long trial in July.

Tatel was joined in the Texas decision by U.S. district judges Rosemary Collyer, appointed in 2002 by President George W. Bush and Robert L. Wilkins, who was nominated in 2010 by President Obama.

Earlier this week, a separate three-judge panel in Washington threw out Texas’s redistricting plans saying the maps drawn by the Republican-led legislature undermined the political clout of minorities who are responsible for the state’s population growth.

The Obama administration opposed both laws because it says they threaten to disenfranchise millions of Latino and African American voters.

The challenges are part of an escalating national legal battle over voter ID laws that has become more intense because it is an election year. Eight states passed voter ID laws last year, and critics say the new statutes could hurt turnout among minority voters and others, many of whom helped elect Obama in 2008. But supporters of the measures — seven of which were signed by Republican governors and one by an independent — say that requiring voters to show specific photo IDs would prevent voter fraud.

Republican lawmakers have argued that the voter ID law is needed to clean up voter rolls, which they say are filled with the names of illegal immigrants, ineligible felons and the deceased. Texas, they argue, is asking for no more identification than people need to board an airplane, get a library card or enter many government buildings.

In a courtroom just down the hallway from where judges heard arguments over the Texas voter ID statute, lawyers for the Justice Department and South Carolina are squaring off this week over a similar measure passed by the state’s legislature last year.

The Justice Department rejected the South Carolina voter ID law in December, the first time that a voting law was refused clearance by Justice in nearly 20 years. South Carolina sued the government to overturn the decision.

The law would require South Carolina voters to show one of five forms of photo identification to be permitted to cast a ballot: a state driver’s license, an ID card issued by the state’s department of motor vehicles, a U.S. military ID, a passport, or a new form of free photo ID issued by county election officials. Lawyers for South Carolina say the law was needed to prevent election fraud and to “enhance public confidence in the integrity of the law.”

“No one disputes that a state must have a system for identifying eligible registered voters who present themselves to vote,” Chris Bartolomucci, a lawyer for South Carolina, told the three-judge panel on Monday. “That is just common sense.”

The Justice Department and attorneys representing civil rights groups, including the NAACP and ACLU, countered in court that the law did discriminate against minority voters and cannot pass muster under the Voting Rights Act.

“A disproportionate number of those individuals are members of racial minority groups,” said Bradley Heard, a Justice Department lawyer, in describing how the law would affect South Carolina voters.

Last month, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. gave a speech in Texas and referred to voter ID laws as “poll taxes,” referring to fees in some states in the South that were used to disenfranchise blacks during the Jim Crow era. Under the Texas law, the minimum cost to obtain a voter ID for a Texas resident without a copy of his birth certificate would be $22, according to the Justice Department.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2012 11:44 am
@farmerman,
The Federal Court just overturned Texas' ID rule to vote.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2012 11:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
Yeh, but Im sure the USSC will probably overturn the Fed District Court.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2012 09:57 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Yeh, but Im sure the USSC will probably overturn the Fed District Court.
YES; I expect that the USSC will decide that fraud is bad,
even if Democrats love it a lot & respect it as a tradition.





David
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2012 10:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
youve got it all backwards Dave. Fraud is what has been perped on us to try to convince us that "voter fraud" is so rampant that weve gotta enact something like photo id cards. Now we all know thats a baldfaced lie being foisted on us by a GOP parnoid that their candidate needs to hve the playing field tipped in his favor by lying and cheating done in GOP run state legislatures.

My freedoms are being limited by the GOP's efforts to have this bullshit enacted. Seems that the Texas District Court believes also that because theyve found that this law

1. would, in effect, disenfranchise many voters

2. be a "poll tax". Even though the id card is "free", The underlying support documents needed to obtain one , arent. Sort of defines a poll tax no?

Sounds a bit like something from 1984?
"Citizen, give me your papers"!!


Its kinda funny because, if the USSC takes this issue up, the Pa (and Indiana) courts will, no doubt have to rescind ther first review of the law in that it will leave little time to be in place for this election. SO, GO FOR IT USSC.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2012 11:15 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
youve got it all backwards Dave. Fraud is what has been perped on us to try to convince us
that "voter fraud" is so rampant that weve gotta enact something like photo id cards.
NO. Doing it is justified even to keep out just 1 (count it, ONE; [better yet: DON'T count it) fraudulent vote.
Its the same as putting people 's pictures on drivers' licenses or on their gun licenses.




farmerman wrote:
Now we all know thats a baldfaced lie being foisted on us by a GOP parnoid that their candidate needs to hve the playing field tipped in his favor by lying and cheating done in GOP run state legislatures.
Stopping fraud is the proper thing to do,
and we WILL stop that fraud.
Anyone who wants good id. will get it.





farmerman wrote:
My freedoms are being limited by the GOP's efforts to have this bullshit enacted.
Your freedom to perpetrate fraud, yeah; limited.
That 's Y we DO it.




farmerman wrote:
Seems that the Texas District Court believes also that because theyve found that this law

1. would, in effect, disenfranchise many voters
Until, thay REGISTER correctly, yeah!!!




farmerman wrote:
2. be a "poll tax". Even though the id card is "free", The underlying support documents needed to obtain one, arent. Sort of defines a poll tax no?
Yes: it does not.
Cab fare to the polls is not a tax, nor is getting id.


farmerman wrote:
Sounds a bit like something from 1984?
"Citizen, give me your papers"!!
That 's the way voting is.
Do u feel the same qua the inconveniences of gun licenses??????
Have u complained about those????????




farmerman wrote:
Its kinda funny because, if the USSC takes this issue up, the Pa
(and Indiana) courts will, no doubt have to rescind ther first review of the law
in that it will leave little time to be in place for this election. SO, GO FOR IT USSC.
Sounds OK to me.





David
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 04:26 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Doing it is justified even to keep out just 1 (count it, ONE;
technically, what you really mean is

"Doing it is justifiedif we are able to con the collective that a fraud problem exists so that we can disenfranchise a significant portion of the electorate who wouldnt vote for us anyway"

Thats more like what you mean


Quote:
Stopping fraud is the proper thing to do,
and we WILL stop that fraud
But first we must create a phobia that such fraud even exists. What the hell, we are the GOP, the home of the "Big Lie"

Quote:
Cab fare to the polls is not a tax, nor is getting id
As a retired attorney you seem to have lost your fast ball here Dave. That point of yours is totally specious
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:35 am
@farmerman,
DAVID wrote:
Doing it is justified even to keep out just 1 (count it, ONE;
farmerman wrote:
technically, what you really mean is

"Doing it is justifiedif we are able to con the collective that a fraud problem exists
so that we can disenfranchise a significant portion of the electorate who wouldnt vote for us anyway"

Thats more like what you mean
That is not what I mean,
but even if fraud had not been perpetrated,
we 'd be perfectly justified in amending the election law
to make FUTURE perpetrations of fraud more difficult. That 's OK.


DAVID wrote:
Stopping fraud is the proper thing to do,
and we WILL stop that fraud
farmerman wrote:
But first we must create a phobia that such fraud even exists.
That is FALSE. We have proven
that all we needed to do was to amend the statute, which we DID. That 's OK.
Creating fobias did not prove to be important.




farmerman wrote:
What the hell, we are the GOP, the home of the "Big Lie"
That was a SOCIALIST party: the German National Socialist Party. We r anti-socialist.



DAVID wrote:
Cab fare to the polls is not a tax, nor is getting id.
farmerman wrote:
As a retired attorney you seem to have lost your fast ball here Dave.
That point of yours is totally specious
NO SALE.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 06:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
we 'd be perfectly justified in amending the election law
to make FUTURE perpetrations of fraud more difficult. That 's OK.


That is not ok when the results is to stop valid voters by the tens of thousands from casting their votes.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 06:10 am
@BillRM,

DAVID wrote:
we 'd be perfectly justified in amending the election law
to make FUTURE perpetrations of fraud more difficult. That 's OK.
BillRM wrote:

That is not ok when the results is to stop valid voters
by the tens of thousands from casting their votes.
FALSE. No one is entitled to vote without being properly registered first, as a condition precedent.
Voting is open ONLY to citizens who reside in that election district.





DaVid
 

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