MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 10:59 pm
Farmer asks if these photo ID laws are going national? Yes. It's a Republican push. At least ten states have passed them or similar restrictive laws, all but one of them under Republican control.

Further, in the last couple days, the PA law has been taken to state court.
Quote:
But evidence of the kind of voting fraud the laws would discourage is elusive. Pennsylvania stipulated before the trial that it could not show evidence of such fraud in the past and that it is unlikely to occur in the absence of the law.

says the Washington Post. Apparently the state also stipulated that it had no knowledge of voter fraud occurring anywhere else.

So they concede it hasn't happened, and they don't think it's gonna happen, they've got close to 10 percent of their population without an ID that'll let them vote, and JUST EXACTLY WHY IS IT THAT WE NEED THESE LAW?
Something's slimy, and its initials are G.O.P.
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 12:58 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Are these photo ID laws going national?

Arizona passed one in 2004.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 03:50 am
@MontereyJack,
My bet is that the AMish case will recieve a quick view and adjutication on the Fast Track. The conservative talk shows are (as youd expect) 100% behind the law with it "Voter fraud" assertion yet , when pressed, thye too cant come up with any cases.

We may have a politica; standoof with this thing but, if it goes as far as the STate Supreme Court, it will go all the way to the USSC
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 03:50 am
@MontereyJack,
My bet is that the AMish case will recieve a quick view and adjutication on the Fast Track. The conservative talk shows are (as youd expect) 100% behind the law with it "Voter fraud" assertion yet , when pressed, thye too cant come up with any cases.

We may have a politica; standoof with this thing but, if it goes as far as the STate Supreme Court, it will go all the way to the USSC
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 06:51 am
@BillRM,
Bullshit, Bill. I don't believe the motive is to disenfranchise anyone and I don't believe that will be the result.

You need some sort of ID to get on a plane, open a bank account, and a myriad of other things, so anyone who doesn't have one already had better get one. This isn't 1912...

I think it's an excellent idea and have long wondered why they let us vote with just our name. I could be anyone posing to be someone else and vote their vote before they got there just on my say-so. We don't sign anything at our voting booths, just announce who we are and where we live.
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:04 am
@Mame,
The motive is clearly to disenfranchise people. Penn State Rep Mike Turzai even went on record saying "Voter ID - which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania - done." You might need an ID to do lots of things but none of those are Constitutional rights. You need to have a really good reason to deny someone their rights and not being able to travel to and wait for the DMV is not one of them.

Quote:
I could be anyone posing to be someone else and vote their vote before they got there just on my say-so. We don't sign anything at our voting booths, just announce who we are and where we live.

And that system works really, really well. Fast, efficient, no fraud. If I was intent on stealing votes on a large scale, I'd just make up fake ID's. It's a lot harder to get past a bouncer than a harried election volunteer facing a long line of disgruntaled voters who are faced with much longer waits because of a bogus ID law.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:54 am
@engineer,
Here often the political parties arrange buses and vans to transport people without cars to voting booths.

As I said before, you need picture ID to open a bank account, go to a bar (if you look young), or get on a plane. This has been in effect for a long time so I'm surprised when people don't have picture ID. They need to get with the program. I don't think showing ID at a voting booth is a hardship for anyone.

And their Constitutional right is not being violated or taken away... many systems and policies have been implemented over time - it's called adjusting. They can still vote - they just need picture ID.
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:03 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
The motive is clearly to disenfranchise people.

No, that is not clearly the motive.

Quote:
Penn State Rep Mike Turzai even went on record saying "Voter ID - which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania - done."

He clearly meant that absent voter fraud, Romney will win. I'm not saying that's a true statement, but I'm suggesting that is what he intended to convey.

If folks can find their way to the voting booth, they can find their way to getting a photo ID.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:20 am
@Ticomaya,
Quote:
If folks can find their way to the voting booth, they can find their way to getting a photo ID.


In Virginia, demoKKKrats have been sending registration forms to children, dogs, cats, rabbits, and dead people. There may actually be a problem with a dog or a cat or a ghost getting to a photo ID center on his/her own.....
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:43 am
To repeat, no one has in fact found evidence of this alleged massive voter fraud anywhere. This is a "solution" to a non-existent problem. There is, on the other hand, evidence of large numbers of people, despite what Mame thinks, who do not in fact, now have IDs that would work in the various states and have not been able to get them. I read a recent one done in PA in connection with the court case, that found if I remember correctly 9.2% of its citizens IDless. This disenfranchises a lot of people, and it's bogus. If you don't have an ID it's often not a simple matter to get one. But that does not mean you're any the less a citizen.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:50 am
There's a lot of very good info on their website. I was curious about their absentee ballot procedures, so I looked it up.

Quote:
B. ARE THERE SPECIAL RULES FOR VOTING BY ABSENTEE BALLOT?

Unless a voter is in the military or living overseas and applying for an absentee ballot, the voter must prove his/her identity by providing one of the following on an application for an absentee ballot:

1. The voter’s driver’s license number or PennDOT photo ID number, or
2. The last four digits of the voter’s Social Security number (if he/she doesn’t have a driver’s license), or
3. A copy of any photo ID that would be acceptable if the voter were voting in person at the polls (See Question A. in the previous section), or
4. A non-photo driver’s license or other non-photo ID issued by PennDOT (if the voter has a religious objection to being photographed).
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:51 am
From the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law

Quote:
..Think Getting “Free” ID Is Easy? Think Again!
Proponents of government-issued photo ID laws say it’s simple to get “free” identification to exercise our most fundamental right. During an interview, Republican Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam, who signed into law voter ID requirements for Tennessee, stated he has hesitations with the new law because it will make it "unnecessarily hard" for some people in his state to vote.

"Given human nature, people tend not to address things until the last minute sometimes," Haslam said."I'm concerned about that last minute, when seniors say, 'I really want to vote, I want to vote at the polling place, I don't want to vote absentee. Oh, I need to get a photo ID! ... and I'm concerned about the waiting time [at driver's licensing stations]."

We've heard about people across the country struggling to obtain IDs in states with new government-issued photo ID requirements. Below you will find the stories we've collected from a diverse group of hardworking Americans.

If you live in a state that requires government-issued ID to vote and have questions about what is needed to get a free ID, check out our Voter ID Toolkits.

Indiana

Angela Hiss

Notre Dame University student Angela Hiss was barred from voting in Indiana because her Illinois driver's license was not accepted as proof of identification. Thousands of students like Angela will have difficulty voting in the next election because of repressive voter ID laws. Read more

Nuns from St. Mary's Convent

In 2008, twelve nuns from St. Mary's Convent were prevented from casting ballots because they did not have government-issued photo ID. This was the first election voters were required to present ID after Indiana passed its stringent voter ID law. requiring voters to present valid government-issued photo ID at the polls in order to cast a ballot. Read more

Edward and Mary Weidenbener

Edward and Mary are a married couple in their late 80s, living in Indiana. They went to vote in the presidential primary in May 2012, unaware that Indiana had passed a new law requiring voters to show photo identification at the polls. Because they did not have the required ID, and were not informed in time to obtain such ID, they were given provisional ballots. Unfortunately, those provisional ballots were never counted, because the Weidenbeners were never informed that they had to follow up with the county election board to submit identification after they voted. Read more


Pennsylvania


Wiola Lee

Wiola Lee, 59, was born in rural Georgia and moved to Philadelphia in her early youth to live with her grandmother. Ms. Lee worked for the Philadelphia Public Schools, including special needs children. She has voted for well over 30 years and has been civically active, volunteering as a poll worker in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. With the new voter ID laws, Ms. Lee is trying to access her birth certificate which she will need in order to obtain a photo ID, but the state of Georgia has no record of her birth. Without a photo ID, Ms. Lee will not be able to vote. Read more


Barbara Decoursey

Ms. Decoursey, 79 takes voting seriously. She has been voting in every election since Harry S. Truman ran for president, served as an election judge, and has made sure her children and grandchildren are registered and vote. She was born by midwife in North Carolina and has no birth certificate which is needed to get a photo ID in Pennsylvania. Read more

Bea Bookler

Bea Bookler has voted in every election since 1940 but now 72 years later she may not be able to cast what she believes might be her last vote. At 93 years old, Ms. Bookler lives at an assisted living facility in Chester County, no longer posseses photo ID and does not have her birth certificate to obtain ID. Read More

Devra Mirel ("Asher") Schor

Mr. Schor is a 22 year-old transgender man (female to male) registered voter in Pennsylvania who was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He works as a paralegal for a public interest law firm that provides civil rights assistance to Pennsylvania prisoners. Mr. Schor expects to formally change his name and gender identity after the transitioning process is further along, which will not be before the November election. Although he has two forms of photo ID acceptable under the new voter photo ID law - a current passport and driver's license - in both he looks like a woman and is identified as "female," but looks and presents like a man. Mr. Schor has a very real and legitimate concern that poll workers will refuse to allow him to vote on election day in November when the person in his ID photos looks so different from the person who comes to vote. Read more

Dorothy Barksdale

Dorothy Barksdale was born at home by a midwife in rural Halifax County, Virginia in 1926. She and her niece have tried unsuccessfully for three years to obtain a birth certificate from the State of Virginia and was recently told that they have no record of her birth. Dorothy's niece called into 1-866-OUR-VOTE after learning about the new photo ID requirement in order to vote, looking for assistance on how to get an ID. Ms. Barkdale started working as a poll worker in Philadelphia shortly after the passage of the Voting Rights Act and now may not be able to vote in November. Read more

Gloria Cuttino

Gloria who is 61 was born in Summerville, South Carolina and moved to Philadelphia at a young age. Ms. Cuttino's mother died when she was sixteen, leaving Ms. Cuttino alone to care for her three younger brothers and sisters. Ms. Cuttino raised four children of her own, one of whom is a Philadelphia police officer. Prior to the photo ID law going into affect she has been trying to get her birth certificate from South Carolina and has told her they have no birth record. Through the help of a pro bono lawyer, she learned that the only way to now get a "delayed" birth certificate is to seek census and other records, which will cost approximately $100, and as well as hire an attorney in South Carolina to petition the court. Ms. Cuttino will not be able to vote in November
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:11 am
@gungasnake,
A love to see a link to such claims outside of a far far right wing nuts website.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:13 am
I've been reading the Doonesbury strip in the Guardian. It summarises everything wonderfully.

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Doonesburys-Jimmy-Crow1.gif
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/doonesbury-jim-crow6.gif
http://media.kjonline.com/images/Doonesbury.jpg
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/doonesbury-jim-crow4-500x158.gif
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/doonesbury-jim-crow3.gif
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:24 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

They need to get with the program. I don't think showing ID at a voting booth is a hardship for anyone.

And their Constitutional right is not being violated or taken away... many systems and policies have been implemented over time - it's called adjusting. They can still vote - they just need picture ID.

In just about every state, the requirement for getting an ID at the DMV is a birth certificate. There are a lot of people without birth certificates. Sometimes the state loses records, some older people were born outside of hospitals, or if you were born in Puerto Rico before 2010, the government might have decided to arbitrarily invalidate your birth certificate. These people are clearly US citizens and are entitled to vote yet cannot get government ID's. Why would you take away their vote to correct a problem that doesn't exist?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:24 am
snaKKKe says:
Quote:
In Virginia, demoKKKrats have been sending registration forms to children, dogs, cats, rabbits, and dead people. There may actually be a problem with a dog or a cat or a ghost getting to a photo ID center on his/her own.....


In other words, they bought a standard mailing list that some organization had compiled, a cheap and easy was to send a mass mailing to a lot of people. There are dozens of such lists you can buy. Do you have any evidence the children, dogs, cats, rabbits, or dead people registered, snaKKKe?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:28 am
And there was the article about the person who tried to get a photo ID but no longer had their birth certificate, so wrote to the hosptial to obtain one. It's simple, the hospital replied, just send us a copy of a photo ID......
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:32 am
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

engineer wrote:
The motive is clearly to disenfranchise people.

No, that is not clearly the motive.

Of course it is. We went two centuries in this country without worrying about a problem that doesn't exist and suddenly state legislatures all over the country run by one party decide to enact laws that don't prevent fraud but do discourage the poor and elderly from voting. You really believe that the purpose is honest and pure of heart? While those of us with reasonable means and picture ID's see this as a no-brainer, even the Penn government thinks there will be 100,000 voters affected. (The ACLU says up to 1,000,000. I think both sides are shading the numbers.) Number of documented fraud cases: 0. (The ACLU says zero as well.) You see this as an honest effort to address a problem?
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 10:14 am
@engineer,
I agree you shouldn't NEED Photo ID to vote, or even your birth certificate. I think it's unnecessary. That said, if they're now required to produce it, they must have SOME form of identification - how do they collect Social Security or open a bank account??? Do they have a paycheque, a copy of last year's tax return, a cheque book with their name and address on it? A health card, an unemployment stub, a library card? A credit card, a pharmacy receipt, a Safeway card, Airmiles card?

I think a solution would be to institute a grace period of several years where in 2017 photo ID will be required but in the interim, two of any of the above would be acceptable. That would give everyone lots of lead time to get their photo ID in order.
farmerman
 
  5  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 10:28 am
@Mame,
The process in Pa is worded so incomprehensively that older folks may get confused if they try to report with documents on hand to the approved sites where IDs will be issued.(It requires several trips and a waiting period)

SO, there are two lawsuits already in the works to stop the disenfranchising program from happening. (One by a bunch of old folks as a class, and another
YOU WATCH. If this law is held up till the election, ALL interest in its promulgation will be gone till the NEXT presidential election.
The GOP had been already caught trying to disenfrnchise those black college kids and tried to keep em from voting in the last presidential election (until a judge estopped the whole thing as an obvious party trick) The result of that was the case was never brought up in any appeal by the GOP.

It certainly is not about voter fraud.
0 Replies
 
 

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