JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 08:22 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
had sadly greatly reduce the respect I hold for the man.


A facilitator for war crimes and terrorism castigating another for his lack of morals. Incredible.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 10:44 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

You know Farmerman David support of rigging elections by the GOP is similar to the actions that his hero the dirty commies might be guilty of!!!
Whine all u want; I respect your 1st Amendment right to whine.
We win on the issue of competent registration.

STILL, no one has even attempted to attack my refutations.

C'mon; give it a shot. ( I think u r too ashamed of the obvious paucity of your position. )





David
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 10:54 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Y not be man enuf to address my remarks DIRECTLY???


If your remarks are as bogus as your remarks on language, I can't imagine what Farmer is afraid of. But then he has been known to blanch at discussing events that are cognitively uncomfortable for him. Much like you, Om.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 11:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You won and you lost as it tell every citizen in the country who had hear of the situation that the GOP can not be trust to hold government power at any level.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 11:46 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
You won and you lost as it tell every citizen in the country
who had hear of the situation that the GOP can not be trust to hold government power at any level.
Nonsense.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 12:02 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Is the med ID card a valid card to use for voting in NC?

There is no "med ID card"--there is no single ID card of any type. In NC they require you to show a government-issued photo ID when you pick up a prescription for a controlled substance. That means you have to show a driver's license, a state-issued non driver ID, a passport, or a military ID--the same forms of government photo ID you'd need to vote in Pennsylvania.

As of yet, they don't require that photo ID to vote in NC. The Republicans tried to push it through, but the governor vetoed it. They are still trying to get enough votes to override the veto, but that won't affect this year's election. The current Republican candidate for governor says he will sign such a voter ID law, and the Republicans are hoping to have one by next year.
Quote:
It would be easy to use that part of a system to make such cards available...

There are a lot of locations, other than the DMV, which the states could use to issue a non driver photo ID, if they really wanted to make these non driver IDs more easily accessible. Confining the issuing only to the DMV, makes it an unnecessary hassle geographically, particularly because the people who need these cards don't drive.

Senior citizen centers could use their vans and buses to transport seniors to the DMV to get these non driver photo IDs if they need them. Most seniors do have birth certificates, or they have some proof of age, to satisfy the DMV requirements to get that ID.

The ultimate solution to the photo ID problem might be a uniform national identity photo ID card, that would be issued to everyone.

I think that trying to make sure everyone has a valid, acceptable, photo ID, that can be used in any situation where proof of identity is required, is basically a good idea, but I completely agree with you, "NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO DO IT".

They've already run into problems at PennDot when the very elderly have tried to get a non driver state ID. I don't blame this woman for feeling like she wanted to slug someone.
Quote:
Sat, Sep. 1, 2012, 3:01 AM
Oldest in Pa. to get voter IDs

The state set up a new plan after its computers didn't permit the age of a 105-year-old woman.

HARRISBURG - The Pennsylvania Department of Transportation said Friday it had established a new procedure for the very oldest state residents to obtain the newly required voter ID after its computer system would not recognize the age of a 105-year-old woman.
PennDot spokeswoman Jan McKnight said supervisors would inform staff about the new process, developed two days after Alice Carlson ran into trouble getting identification because of her age.

Carlson showed up Wednesday at a PennDot licensing center in Snydersville, about 25 miles north of Easton, but the computer would not recognize an age above 104, the Pocono Record reported. Instead, it wanted to record her as being 6 years old.

"I guess they don't really expect 105-year-old folks to come in for an ID," said State Rep. Mario Scavello (R., Monroe), who accompanied Carlson to get the photo ID, which will be mandatory for voters in Pennsylvania starting with the Nov. 6 election.

Scavello, a supporter of the voter-ID law, has offered to drive anyone who needs one to the licensing center. So far, about six people have taken him up on it.

After an hour and a half, PennDot used a work-around to produce an official ID for Carlson, a lifelong Democrat who first voted for Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1932. Reached at her home in Canadensis on Friday, Carlson declined to comment.

The Pocono Record described her as a former employee of the New York City schools who moved to the Poconos, her longtime vacation spot, after the death of her husband.

The newspaper said Carlson appeared annoyed as she had to wait while supervisors worked out a way to get her the required identification, and when reporters - alerted by Scavello - surrounded her outside.

"I am going to hit somebody," she told reporters.

Afterward, Scavello bought her lunch at a restaurant in nearby Tannersville.

"What a bright lady, I'll tell you," Scavello said. "She's one in a million."

McKnight said PennDot would use a paper-based process for voters 105 and older, at least until it can figure out how to fix the computer system code so it will permit ages above 104.

Pennsylvania's voter-ID law, passed by Republicans without Democratic support and signed by Republican Gov. Corbett, has been upheld by a state appeals court, but that ruling will be the subject of a Sept. 13 state Supreme Court hearing in Philadelphia.

Supporters say the law is needed to combat voter fraud, but opponents counter that examples of fraud are rare or nonexistent and that the law's real aim is to suppress votes by groups that lean Democratic, such as the poor and young people. Courts are reviewing similar laws in other states ahead of the presidential election.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120901_Oldest_in_Pa__to_get_voter_IDs.html

They aren't even making it easy to get the new Pa voter ID card--the "card of last resort" which is finally available.
Quote:
Pennsylvania Has a New Voter ID Option—But Serious Burdens Remain
Abby Rapoport
August 31, 2012

The new "card of last resort" means everyone in the state can get an ID—but that hardly solves all the problem's with the state's strict requirement.

There's a lot not to like about Pennsylvania's voter ID law, which requires voters show a government-issued photo ID at the polls. Only a few types of IDs are acceptable, like driver's licenses and passports, and even public-university student IDs must have an expiration date on them. Ever since Republicans passed the law in March, critics have worried that without a comprehensive education plan, hundreds of thousands of voters would not even know about the law—those Pennsylvanians, disproportionately nonwhite and low-income, who lack the necessary ID. Most urgently, they pointed to the people could't get an ID under Pennsylvania's unusually restrictive rules, because they didn't have a birth certificate or social security card or their married name was different than the names on some documents. In a lawsuit aimed at blocking the law, plaintiff Vivienne Applewhite exemplified the problem—a longtime voter, born in South Carolina, whose Social Security card had been stolen and whose birth certificate did not match her current last name. Almost anywhere else in the U.S., she'd be able to keep voting. In Pennsylvania, it would be practically impossible.

The state promised that such problems would be solved by voter education efforts and by a new card, a "card of last resort" that would allow people without the necessary documentation to get an ID. A Commonwealth Court judge ruled in favor of the state based on those assurances, noting that he was "not convinced any qualified elector need by disenfranchised" once the new "card of last resort" was in place.

With just more than 60 days until the election, the last-resort card is finally available. That's certainly good news, but it still leaves significant burdens on voters—and raises questions about why this law was needed in the first place.

Ironically, the last-resort card is harder to get for those born in Pennsylvania than those born out of state. To get the ID, those born out of state can go to one of the state's ID-issuing offices, give their information, and, once the state worker recognizes the applicant lacks the necessary documents, they can get the card using showing just two proofs of residency and providing some basic information. (Both the new card of last resort and standard ID cards are free for voting purposes.)

However, those born in Pennsylvania have to go to the office twice. And even before that, even if they don't have a birth certificate, they must request a certified birth record from the state. (For those born out of state, getting a new birth certificate can be almost impossible.) After making that request, the Pennsylvania natives must go home and wait for the state to send confirmation of the birth record. Then they must return to the office and request the new voter ID card, bringing proofs of residency as well. Since many of the affected voters are elderly, two trips to the state offices—which are not, to say the least, located on every corner—may be prove exhausting and burdensome. The Pennsylvania Voter ID Coalition, a group that's trying to raise awareness of the law and help people get IDs, is trying to pressure the state into letting everyone, born in the state or out of it, get the same-day option. It's a significant time commitment to go to a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation office once, let alone twice, and PennDOT offices have struggled to ensure their workers know the law's requirements and what options voters are supposed to have.

While it's a slight improvement, the new card does not solve the larger problem of voter awareness. While the state says it has a broad-scale plan for educating the public, there's little evidence to support that assertion. The debate over the state law has been saturated with evidence of partisan politicking. Advocates for the new requirement said it was necessary to guard against voter fraud, but there's no evidence of in-person fraud in Pennsylvania's elections. Meanwhile, the state House Republican Majority Leader Mike Turzai openly bragged the law would pave the way for a Mitt Romney victory in the state. The PR firm hired to educate voters is controlled largely by Republicans. If voters do not know about the law, even those who simply need to get their license renewed will not be able to cast a standard ballot. Because of the inevitable confusion and complications, lines on Election Day could be extreme in cities like Philadelphia—and long waits often mean some people give up and go home.

But with the new card in place, one has to ask why this law is so strict in the first place. Legitimate, registered voters must jump through a variety of hoops to get an ID; why can't they simply use the same utility bill to vote instead of waiting for hours at PennDOT? Virginia, for one, is implementing a voter ID law that does not require a photo ID—utility bills, employee cards, and the like will suffice. While that law requires voters to show that they are who they say they are, it doesn't erect serious hurdles to hundreds of thousands of voters. There's no reason to require so much more; it only serves as yet another hurdle to marginalized voters.

Of course, for Pennsylvania Republicans, that is the point.
http://prospect.org/article/pennsylvania-has-new-voter-id-option%E2%80%94-serious-burdens-remain


They are still litigating the voter ID law in South Carolina--even as the election is swiftly approaching.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hXPJ7EhjOpOR5IQyZ958Ojz-S0aw?docId=a270779c69694599890fa06a9128721f


0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 01:20 am

IF the objections of these leftist protesters were honored,
that 'd be a testament in homage of corruption, liberalism, fraud & deception.





David
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 01:33 pm
This is a good and thoughtful article that does not emphasize partisan factors, but, instead, focuses on other issues and problems with these voter ID laws.
Quote:
Voter ID cases: Invisible voter v. imaginary fraud
By Nathaniel Persily, Special to CNN
Fri August 31, 2012

Editor's note: Nathaniel Persily is the Charles Keller Beekman Professor of Law and Political Science at Columbia Law School.

(CNN) -- In the space of two weeks, two different courts have come to two different results in evaluating the legality of two similar voter identification laws.

In Pennsylvania, a state trial judge upheld the newly enacted voter ID law under the state's constitution, while Thursday in Washington, a federal panel rejected Texas' similar ID law under the federal Voting Rights Act.

Despite their differences, both courts were quite right to agree on a central proposition: We really don't know how large an impact these voter ID laws will have on elections. In the end, the question, both legal and moral, often boils down to who should have the burden of proof: Should states be forced to show their laws are justified because they prevent demonstrable fraud or should opponents be forced to show that the law prevents large numbers of people from voting?

Voter ID cases often pit an invisible plaintiff against an imaginary problem. It is difficult to find voters who absolutely cannot vote because of an ID law, just as it is challenging to find instances of the type of fraud such laws intend to prevent.

The plaintiffs are invisible because very few people have the means to bring the federal case to challenge such laws but don't have the ability to navigate the barriers at the Department of Motor Vehicles to get an actual ID. Also, although we do know about 10% of Americans might not have the ID necessary to vote, we don't know how many won't vote specifically because of this extra burden, how many will be motivated to get an ID or how many will resort to absentee ballots, which do not require ID.

In the Pennsylvania case, the lawyers had the perfect plaintiff, Viviette Applewhite, a 93-year-old, wheelchair-bound African-American woman who had no driver's license and no birth certificate because she was born at home.

For such people, getting the required documents can be burdensome and sometimes expensive. For Applewhite, unlike most of us, exercising her right to vote was worth the fight in court. (Did I mention she also marched with Martin Luther King Jr.?) It also turned out that once she lost her case, she was able and willing to get through the bureaucratic maze necessary to get her ID.

The moral of the story: If you are one of those people who considers voting a right worth dying for, you'll most likely be able to do what is necessary to get to vote. Such is not the case, however, if you are one of the unfortunate few who can never get the right documents you need. Or if you're one of the great many nonvoters for whom any additional hindrance makes you think it's not worth it -- that the added costs of registering and voting exceed the intangible benefit of knowing you have participated in the democracy.

Even after an election takes place, another reason makes plaintiffs difficult to find and the effect of voter ID laws uncertain: It's unclear whether the laws are actually enforced as intended. For any number of election regulations, there's a huge gap between the law on the books and the practices in the polling place.

When the poll worker's neighbor shows up without an ID, the odds are that she might let him vote anyway -- that is, assuming he has been neighborly. Of course, that might not happen if she doesn't recognize him or she has trouble understanding his accent. Indeed, political scientists find that huge numbers of voters in states even without ID laws report being asked for photo ID on Election Day. And at least one election administrator in Pennsylvania has even pledged not to enforce the new law.

Against the invisible plaintiffs in these cases is the imaginary problem of voter impersonation fraud -- the kind of fraud where someone goes to the polling place and votes using the name of someone else.

Even though we have few documented cases and prosecutions, make no mistake about it: Voter impersonation does happen. It probably happens with the same frequency as voters collapsing in line while waiting to vote, or getting nauseous when they see the names on the ballot. And yes, if every election were to be a replay of the 2000 election, then any mishap -- fraudulent or otherwise -- could determine the outcome. As of yet, however, we have not required all polling places to be prepared with smelling salts.

The reason voter impersonation fraud is so rare is that it is an incredibly stupid and inefficient way to rig an election. Shepherding hordes of fraudsters from one polling place to the next to vote in other people's names would take a lot of time and effort and expose them to trouble with the law with little potential payoff. Successful fraud is usually perpetrated at the wholesale, rather than retail, level.

Absentee ballots, in particular, have proven to be the fraudster's method of choice. They are cast in private out of the view of suspecting eyes of poll workers or fellow voters. They are ripe for coercion and undue influence from whoever might be sitting next to the absentee voter -- think union or corporate bosses. And multiple ballots can be collected over the course of several weeks, saving the expense and rush of a one-day voter impersonation campaign.

The greatest irony of the new crop of voter ID laws is that they do nothing to combat the more frequent problem of absentee ballot fraud.

In fact, they might even make such fraud more likely because the number of absentee voters might increase, given that absentee voters do not need to have a photo ID in order to vote. Worse still, absentee votes are much more likely to be otherwise disqualified because of errors committed by either the voter or the vote counter. They present the perfect storm of fraud and mistakes that conjures up images of the cockeyed Florida vote counters in the 2000 election.

I happen to be in the camp that believes a state should provide a compelling justification for new election laws even if they have an admittedly uncertain effect on voters' rights. But you do not need to be a fellow traveler or even to be preoccupied with voting rights to worry about the implications of these laws.

Enforcement of these laws will be spotty. They will cause confusion in the polling place as relatively untrained, volunteer poll workers come up to speed with sometimes complicated new regulations. Some voters will choose not to vote, while others will cast provisional ballots -- so-called because the legality of the vote will be determined after Election Day if the voter can come up with ID in time for the ballot to be counted.

This will all be done in the name of preventing voter fraud. Yet if these laws lead unwittingly to an increase in the number of voters casting absentee votes out of public view, then they will not even have addressed the fraud they intend to solve. Indeed, they might even make it worse.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/31/opinion/persily-voter-id-laws/
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 02:49 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
that 'd be a testament in homage of corruption, liberalism, fraud & deception.


Y'all keep knocking each other out over which US officials/government groups/administrations has been the most corrupt, the most venal, the most despicable.

Though it's hardly a coin toss, conservatives/Repuglicans certainly have the upper hand, your governments are dictionary definitions of evil, corrupt, perfidy, perverse, rotten, putrifying, amoral, ... .

Kinda like you, Dave.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2012 06:02 pm
@firefly,
ThePa SUpreme Court has taken the testimony for the appeal of the judges upholding of the Photo ID proposal. Since it is in the larger sphere of regs , PA may see this like IWisconsin and TexaS. Or not.
THe establishment of one's bona fides will be part of the issue in determiningbwhether that aspect of the law(proving you are even you so the DMV can take your picture is gonna cost many people about 80 bucks a head). That constitutes a poll tax under the PA Constitution.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2012 06:24 pm
@farmerman,
I thought another issue in the appeal is that there is a rush to pass and impliment this law, despite the lack of evidence of voter fraud to justify such urgency. And one consequence of the "rush" would be to disqualify voters who simply lack enough time to obtain their photo ID's.

They can't really justify why they need the law in effect for this coming election.
Apart, from being unable to fully justify this law at all.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 01:07 am
Alas there are only six judges hearing this case, 3 Dem and 3 Repub, and if they tie, the decision reverts to the lower court that upheld the law.

And so fate conspires to deprive minorities of their right to vote.

Interestingly enough the 116 year old, wheelchair bound, poor black woman plaintiff in this case just was all over the local TV when she got her free ID.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 06:50 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Though it's hardly a coin toss, conservatives/Repuglicans certainly have the upper hand, your governments are dictionary definitions of evil, corrupt, perfidy, perverse, rotten, putrifying, amoral, ... .


Don't you agree, Finn?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 07:10 am
@firefly,
there are several distinct issues being verbalized to the court.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 07:20 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Ive heard that on the radio and I wonder whether that would really stop the ascent of appeals because the issue of "poll taxing" is one covered by the US Constitution as well. as is disenfranchisement by means.


PS, Justice Ron Castille has never been counted on by the GOIPs. Hes an old fashioned Ike -like GOP

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Sep, 2012 04:08 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
(CBS/AP) HARRISBURG, Pa. - Pennsylvania's highest court on Tuesday told a lower court judge to stop a tough new law requiring voters to show photo identification from taking effect in this year's presidential election if he finds voters cannot easily get ID cards or if he thinks they will be disenfranchised.


The 4-2 decision by the state Supreme Court sends the case back to a Commonwealth Court judge who initially said the divisive law could go forward. The high court asked the judge, Robert Simpson, for his opinion by Oct. 2.


"The ruling means more drama, next month, with just weeks to go before the election," CBS Radio News senior legal analyst Andrew Cohen said. "The trial judge now has to respond to this and give attorneys for both sides a chance to make new arguments."


If Simpson finds there will be no voter disenfranchisement and that IDs are easily obtained, then the 6-month-old law can stand, the Supreme Court said.


"It's certainly a very positive step in the right direction in that the court recognizes that the state does not make adequate provision for people to get the ID that they would need to vote," said David Gersch, the lead lawyer for the plaintiffs challenging the law's constitutionality. "In addition, there is a practical problem with getting the ID to people in the short time available."


Penda Hair, co-director of the Advancement Project, one of the organizations that challenged the law, praised the court's action as a "step in the right direction."


In the meantime, the Pennsylvania Department of State, which oversees voting and elections, said it will continue telling Pennsylvanians to bring proper identification to the polls "until the judge makes a decision" to grant an injunction stopping the law, spokesman Mathew Keeler told CBS News.


"We believe, as we have all along, that any legal voter who wants to get an ID is able to do so," spokesman Ron Ruman said.


The Department of State had estimated about 1 percent of registered voters -- more than 80,000 people -- did not meet the law's requirements, which is the estimate Simpson accepted in his August decision upholding the law. Around 9,000 voters have obtained a free identification since the spring, Ruman told CBS News.


Pennsylvania is one of 10 states to adopt such identification laws in the past two years in the name of stopping voter fraud. CBS News surveyed all 10 of those states and reports that the number of voter fraud convictions is very rare. In Pennsylvania, for example, there have been no convictions for voter fraud on state or federal charges in the past decade.


A recent study funded by the Knight Foundation and the Carnegie Corporation, which surveyed all 50 states, found that instances of voter fraud across the country are "infinitesimal" - about one instance of voter impersonation fraud for every 15 million registered voters in the United States.


The court's three sitting Republican justices were joined in Tuesday's majority by one of the court's Democrats, Max Baer. The court's two other Democrats dissented.


Part of the problem, the four majority justices noted, is that the state has scrambled to deal with impediments to distributing a photo ID card promised under the law to any registered voter who needs one. The state began issuing new, voting-only ID cards in late August, after Simpson's original ruling.


"Thus, we will return the matter to the Commonwealth Court to make a present assessment of the actual availability of the alternate identification cards on a developed record in light of the experience since the time the cards became available," the justices wrote.


The justices also pointed to Gersch's suggestion during last week's oral arguments that the photo ID requirement can be constitutional if the state has ensured all eligible voters can get the photo IDs they need.


Some of the people who sued over the law had raised the claim that they might be unable to vote because they lacked the necessary documents, such as an official birth record, to get the law's ID card of last resort: A state nondriver photo ID that is subject to strict federal requirements.


In oral arguments Sept. 13 before the Supreme Court, Justice Thomas Saylor pointed out that the state cannot comply with the "letter of the law," which calls for issuing an ID card to registered voters who need it, because the cards still require supplemental identification that a registered voter might not be able to produce.


Two of the lawsuit's plaintiffs who previously told CBS News the law would prevent them from voting have since found ways to comply with it.


Viviette Applewhite, the 93-year-old Philadelphia woman who was the lead plaintiff, got a voting card making her eligible to vote on Election Day by producing her birth certificate -- the same one with her maiden name that previously fell short of the document requirements --- and providing her Social Security number, Advancement Project spokesman Rich Robinson told CBS News in August.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 Comments +Add a Comment by obwan222 September 18, 2012 5:30 PM EDT This is conservatives' idea of smaller government...

Forcing citizens to get state-issued identity papers to prevent a problem that they can't prove exists.

I thought the GOP was supposed to be focusing on jobs and the economy - you know REAL problems.Reply to this comment ...by Rodeo_Joe September 18, 2012 3:37 PM EDT The Republican Voter Suppression strategy is just that - a strategy to prevent Americans from voting.

And that identifies it as literally "Anti-American". Comprendo?


Reply to this comment ...by smintheus September 18, 2012 3:36 PM EDT Even the law's Republican sponsors admit there is no known voter fraud in PA to combat. Yet they're willing to spend more than $1 million to implement this unnecessary law, and force three-quarters of a million registered voters who lack cars to trudge way out to a DMV and try to obtain the 'right' photo ID...just to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.Reply to this comment .

.by Henry_Hinnershitz September 18, 2012 4:10 PM EDT "trudge way out to a DMV and try to obtain the 'right' photo"???? Are you kidding me? They don't have no problem "Trudging" all the way out to the welfare office or the unemployment office while they are working under the table! Cry baby!...by ZionistCensorship September 18, 2012 4:41 PM EDT Have you contacted your anti America, GOP, economic terrorist, Congressman with your proof, Henry??????....

by ZionistCensorship September 18, 2012 2:33 PM EDT The Pennsylvania voter ID case will be tracked by Supreme Court watchers, since the state is seeking a higher level of proof from voters than was required by Indiana when it passed its voter ID law.
The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the Indiana law in 2008, saying it didn't require burdensome acts from voters.
The Pennsylvania case also got national attention in June, when a state GOP leader Rep. Turzai said voter ID restrictions would help Mitt Romney win the state.
"Voter ID, which is going to allow Gov. (Mitt) Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done," he said at a party meeting



Some of uswere counting a split decision and ultimate "victory" for the pubbies. Pa pubbies cant be counted on to drink all the koolaid of the party. Ron Castille is a left of center centrist with pubbie economic conservative threads. He doesnt feel that the govt should be fussing with our private lives and requiring extraordinary tests of "citizenship"

0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2012 08:20 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I can't decide if you're a brilliant satirist, or a complete idiot.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2012 12:16 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Never have I championed the liberty to perpetrate fraud;
not even for the DECENT guys, let alone the Democrats.


That's a complete and utter lie, Dave. You have often championed and defended Reagan's [and his minions] numerous fraudulent actions during his two terms.

You constantly champion the frauds perpetrated by Bush and his band of war criminals upon the American people, though the American people as a whole aren't that far behind you.

You are well known for taking a delusional stand, Dave, even when the facts are placed right in front of you.

I came across this excellent article on my recent travels.


Quote:

http://www2.macleans.ca/author/eteitel/

What’s left, right and plain wrong in the U.S. presidential campaign

By Emma Teitel- Wednesday, September 5, 2012


Republicans have become the fantasists and Democrats, by default, are now the true American realists

...



Consider one of the main crises the Republicans have been citing throughout this campaign: voter fraud. They imply that fraud at the polling booth—ineligible voters casting ballots—is epidemic in the U.S., and that it consistently threatens to distort election results. Their solution has been to propose and pass a series of laws in Republican-controlled states stipulating that to vote you have to have a driver’s license or a passport. But in fact there is no crisis—nor has there ever been a crisis—around voter fraud in the United States.

A widespread study by the U.S. Justice Department between 2002 and 2007 found that of the 300 million people who cast votes in that time period, only 86 were convicted of voter fraud; and the majority of those people weren’t even aware of their ineligibility to vote in the first place.

So why the sudden urgency for voter ID laws? Because, as Rolling Stone magazine has pointed out, “the estimated 10 per cent of Americans whom the laws would render ineligible to vote belong to constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic—including 18 per cent of young voters and 25 per cent of African-Americans.”

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2012 03:04 pm
@DrewDad,
How about both? Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2012 07:43 pm
@farmerman,
Well, it is fact, and you can spin it as you will, but it remains the fact.
0 Replies
 
 

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