Planning a trip to Europe...

Thanks, Walter.
Of course non-Europeans have a different approach to travelling in Europe - it costs us heaps in time and money to get there (my last trip from Oz took 60 hours - thanks Malaysian Airlines!)

My European friends can just hop over to another country within an hour or two - easy and cheap. I managed this just once - I was based in Sweden (not the most convenient) but managed to catch up with friends in southern England and Switzerland, and see a bit more of London in just 4 days. Luxury.

We also have a different approach when we're there. Different things excite / interest us. For many, the cost is a major factor.

When I retire, I'm hoping to spend about 6 months in Europe - just ambling about. I want to revel in how close everything is, comparatively.

Wow, all this great info from everybody. I'll write a long post tonight detailing what I'm thinking about.

Cheers
Cycloptichorn

When I took mampad and dadpad around here, I've noticed that....
Fortunately, I was (and still am) quite used to tour with foreigners around the country/countries - some English friends come over twice per year (nearly since Abuzz days), and still see something unknown

Think fiscal conservatism Cyclo. You might need the dough later and some old photographs of you tossing a coin into the fountain in Trevi are not much use if things get tight.

The last I heard was that a runabout train ticket covering the whole of Europe was about $450. You can get on and off anywhere you want. Fly into Manchester. A train from the airport to the main line. Up to the Mull of Kintyre to see the northern lights, back to Edinburgh and a hotel in Princess Street. See the Castle so that everytime you see a picture of it on telly you can preen "I've been there". Then to Carlisle to get the scenic route puffing billy and a Yorkshire Dales hotel. Real ale. Down to Dover, miss London out, and catch the Eurostar to the Gare du Nord and the flesh spots of Gay Paree. Fan out in any direction. It's all the same. Shite.

I agree with a huge amount of what Margo said. I didn't find Eurail pass made sense for me on my trips. In any case, I tended to book a seat for the next phase the same time I arrived in, say, Cremona: that was on the 13 cities trip. It helped keep myself on schedule - which I wanted on that one trip.


Adds - on places to stay, I like one and two star but scour what's there since I want to be reasonably safe, but I don't care at all about a lot of amenities (including breakfast and in many places you can say you don't want it and probably then don't have to pay for it). This is because I'd rather go to local little holes in the wall and taste the pastries.. I do like charming, and might pick a place that has a garden. So - this kind of thing varies from person to person.

One of the sites I look at for fun is Booking.com - I've found it very useful for my daydreaming.

You need to "sort of" make up your mind as to what your interests are; some of the best museums in Europe can take up much time. When I was younger, I loved to walk the cities to become familiar with the surroundings, and stop by at different restaurants and bars for food and drink.

If you know which major cities you with to visit, it's easier to find a travel company that services that country and area. It saves bookoo time on transportation, accommodations, and seeing the most important sites.

Independent tours are nice to the extent you can play it by air as to where you wish to spend more time to explore, but two weeks isn't much time for enjoying major locations like London that has the best museums, theater district, and historical sites.

One nice thing about Europe is the fact that most countries and cities are within easy reach by public transportation, and you have only the Euro and British pound to contend with. In the old days, we had to go through customs and change our currency at every border.

Explore at home (internet) before you explore on foot. All public transportation systems are easy to understand by knowing where you are, and what line you need to catch for your destination by knowing where the end of the line is.

Many places now require you to have exact change to ride their buses and trains.

Yes, booking.com is great. I got rather cheap hotel accommodations in Amsterdam - no dump either, the hotel is brand new and just opened a few weeks ago (we probably have to stucco the room )

If you're only 2 weeks in Europe, Eurorail is a waste of time! Either take a car or fly, but depending on what Cyclo and his beautiful wife want to see, they can book accordingly.

seriously the key - are you into checking out the music/arts scene in different cities, do you want to walk in Portugal (my personal dream - I''m wildly envious of hingehead's recent trip), do you want to do museums (I'd head to Russia first in that case), check out architecture, are you a foodie or a history buff, want to visit battlefields (I know too many people who've done battlefield trips in the U.S. and Europe) ... any one of those would create a wildly different trip

I'm confused, are you saying they shouldn't take the trains at all? Eurail passes don't make sense financially for two weeks (or to me, even a month), but booking at the train stations (or, I suppose you can do it online) is very doable re money and can be easier than dealing with a car. Or, you can rent a car for a few days in the countryside and take trains for the rest of it.
When I was there, any newstand had the train schedule booklets.

It all depends where they want to go, osso. Staying in cities, they only need to take public transportation that's the easiest and cheapest way. If they want to see the countryside, then a car is best.

Ah, I see your point - mine's sort of inbetween - but, depends on what you want to see and deal with. That last trip, I took the train between all those small cities and then walked the cities. Almost no buses.

An interlude:

photo from my train stopping at Empoli Station (west of Florence) - must have been chilly that day:

So true! Selecting several major interests I believe would simplify the planning for any trip.

Even organized tours with some free time allows people to explore on their own, and seek out places of personal interests.

When young, I tend to believe in free-lancing where to go and what to see. Part of the fun of travel is to go from place to place on a whim. I remember when I did a Eurail pass many decades ago when I was riding the train from Paris to Brussels, and a gentleman I met on the train returning from a bike tour because it started raining in Southern France. I asked him where to visit, because I had a free day before returning to London for my flight home. He recommended Brugges, so I went, and I had a lovely time visiting this very unique Venice of the North. I still think about that trip, and wonder if I should return there for a last hurrah.

Travel to me is more than a hobby; it's a desire I have deep in my heart and soul.

If you're thinking of flying between cities on a discount carrier, it will save you time but not necessarily money. You'll save on the fair, but pay handsomely for baggage and cab fares in some destinations. They tend to fly out of smaller airports that can be quite a distance the city you want to visit. If you do any pre-trip research, plan your travel plans.
I hope you have a fantastic trip.

My place is 5 star osso. No scouring required. It's so safe I never think about it being safe. Breakfast is mandatory and always perfectly prepared and presented and is served when I want it to be. Usually about 10.15 a.m. Local little holes in the wall are dotted all around me and they are charming and I can think, quickly, of a dozen or so with a garden. And my digestive system is used to the water so that I'm never involved in that dunny splatter squeaking stuff. I would demand a grand a week to leave it and become a mooching tourist taking pictures of people without asking their consent and then broadcasting them. Lousy pictures as well. Lift camera to eye and click type of pictures.

I hope you are not one of those tourists who complain about how many tourists there are because places swamped with them allow waiters and barmaids to get the upper hand.

That is inauthentic. The walk was to find something to do between eating and drinking and to rustle up a thirst.

The idea that one might become familiar with a city by having a walk around it going from bar to bar, a pub crawl we call it, is just so ridiculous. It patronises the city and it patronises us.

Maybe the meandering post is what ci. does when at home to fill the time in between eating and drinking.

Have you ever seen Brian Sewell discussing tourists? Have you never thought of what they look like to the natives?

Ever feel you were being talked down to?

Thank you for those pearls of wisdom Sirrah.

I presume that is a lewd jest Cal about stains on the walls left by previous occupants of the plaster-board box. It's in very bad taste if it is.

Cycling is better than a car for seeing the countryside Cal. Walking is even better. A car is just a way of getting to drinking and eating places more spaced out than those on ci's walks. Talking about "seeing the countryside" is merely a method of avoiding reality just as ci's "familiarity" with the cities is when he has thought it fitting to take a stroll in one.

Hah. I'm not a tourist. I'm a traveller. I'm fine with people being tourists, but I skirt around clumps of them. Uh, move on past them.

Oh, and thanks for the invite. Mame will be so envious.

One note -- my first trip to Europe, I didn't actually know what I wanted to see/ do. I built in a lot of flexibility, and that was good. We had tentative plans to meet in Paris and go to Portugal, but standing in line for train tickets we had a simultaneous "um, we're in Paris!" moment and we ditched the Portugal plans and just stayed in Paris the whole time. And it was wonderful.

That whole trip (some with friends, some solo, then the last bit in Paris with E.G.) what was most fun for me was just doing something spontaneous, and it always seemed to pay off.

I know that's not the case for everyone -- it can definitely be less efficient and more expensive that way. (I was dirt-poor at the time and managed, but I sure saw a lot of things I wish I could've afforded, and couldn't.) But just adding that re: my own experience.