Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

@BillRM,

We have a thing called elections over here, which coupled with legislation that stops broadcasters being overly biased means we have free and fair elections. We don't have rulers we have elected representatives.

As we don't have huge propaganda machines telling us what to think, we've not swallowed the ridiculous paranoid notion that the government would use the military against its own people. We are fully aware of the real danger of disturbed individuals going on the rampage with legally held firearms. Something people like you and Oralboy seem quite blase about.

I'm not so selfish to believe that innocent people should be murdered on an almost daily basis just so I can feel big by holding a gun.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

We have a thing called elections over here, which coupled with legislation that stops broadcasters
being overly biased means we have free and fair elections.
We don't have rulers we have elected representatives.

As we don't have huge propaganda machines telling us what to think,

IF someone told ME "what to think" I woud not
then relinquish my independence of thought.
When the GOP or the NRA has declared concepts with which I disagree,
I have been LOUD in denunciation & refusal to co-operate.
( Better yet, when thay call me for more money,
I give them COMPLAINTS, instead of cash to discipline then. )
Maybe its different in England? U have to do as u r told??

izzythepush wrote:

we've not swallowed the ridiculous paranoid notion
that the government would use the military against its own people.

Right, yes, because that never happens.
U shud render your assurances to the Syrians;
thay have been unduly concerned about that of late.

izzythepush wrote:

We are fully aware of the real danger of disturbed individuals going on the rampage with legally held firearms.
Something people like you and Oralboy seem quite blase about.

Yes. Its just part of life, like traffic accidents; no worse than if thay make bombs,
or drive fast cars into dense crowds.
Where there is a will there is a way; ask Tim McVeigh.

izzythepush wrote:

I'm not so selfish to believe that innocent people
should be murdered on an almost daily basis just so I can feel big by holding a gun.

Carrying guns has not much effect on one's emotions.
It has no effect upon perception of size.
I was a lot smaller, at age 8, when I began carrying a .38 revolver.
I did not feel taller. I felt safer. I coud better control
any predatory emergency that might present itself.
(That did not actually happen for a few decades.)
Yes, it makes u feel safer, but as u go thru the day,
your mind goes to the many other concerns with which u r beset,
e.g., the weather, your best choice of restaurant, who u shud call
with a dinner invitation, political concerns, etc. U forget about it.
Its the same as wearing a watch or a wallet, Izzy; u r not obsessed with it.
U merely have recourse to it, when u need it. Right ?

( From your post, it sounds like u need to augment your selfishness. )

David

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

Freedom is hardly an anachronistic concept that only our ancestors got to enjoy but we have to forgo here in the present.

Why do you think the 1787 Convention was so long and so acrimonious if it wasn't that freedom was being traded for collective security. The whole idea of the Union was to prevent fighting between the states. Looked at that way your guns are unconstitutional.

Admit it's psychological. Male lingerie. Hence the style. Sexy. Engineered embroidery. Frilly bits.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Right, yes, because that never happens.
U shud render your assurances to the Syrians;
thay have been unduly concerned about that of late.

David, Syria is not Britain. You're comparing a dictatorship with a mature democracy whose system of government was used as a basis for your own.

Small arms have shown themselves to be of limited use against fighter jets, helicopter gunships and tanks. If all the SFA had to sustain itself were small arms it would have collapsed a long time ago. It is heavily reliant on foreign aid.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I coud better control
any predatory emergency that might present itself.
(That did not actually happen for a few decades.)

Absolute nonsense David. When Gabrielle Gifford was shot, those armed individuals in the crowd did nothing, because shock sets in. It was an unarmed old woman who wrestled the shooter to the ground.

And don't give me a load of bullshit about how you and your conservative mates would have reacted differently, because that means you're lying to yourself.

I prefer living in a society when if I have a run in with the police, I won't get shot by some trigger happy cop, because they're not armed either.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Freedom is hardly an anachronistic concept that only our ancestors got to enjoy but we have to forgo here in the present.

Why do you think the 1787 Convention was so long and so acrimonious if it wasn't that freedom was being traded for collective security. The whole idea of the Union was to prevent fighting between the states. Looked at that way your guns are unconstitutional.

Admit it's psychological. Male lingerie. Hence the style. Sexy. Engineered embroidery. Frilly bits.

LOL

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I coud better control
any predatory emergency that might present itself.
(That did not actually happen for a few decades.)

izzythepush wrote:

Absolute nonsense David.

Someone shot at me
and then fled when he saw my reflective,
stainless steel mirror .44 revolver come into vu,

http://www.proguns.com/images/used-guns/usedguns247-904/278taurus445.jpg

in low light conditions at night.
Will u be good enuf to EXPLAIN TO ME how that can be "Absolute nonsense"????

izzythepush wrote:

When Gabrielle Gifford was shot, those armed individuals in the crowd did nothing, because shock sets in.
It was an unarmed old woman who wrestled the shooter to the ground.

Democrats have a way of sharing your anti-gun sentiments.
It deem it un-likely that any of them chose to be armed.

izzythepush wrote:

And don't give me a load of bullshit about how you and your conservative mates
would have reacted differently, because that means you're lying to yourself.

That is a non-sequitur.
Despite your command that I not tell u that I and my conservative friends
( I have never mated with any of them )
woud have reacted differently, I must be insubordinate.
Lemme put it this way:
when someone shot at me (in an apparent robbery attempt)
it took a lot less than a second to get my gun in my hand.
Judging by that, if I were confronted with predatory violence
toward someone whom I admire (a freedom loving politician)
my reflexes woud be activated.

Obviously, the bad guy was very conspicuous.
He 'd have been riddled with gunshots, very swiftly

izzythepush wrote:

I prefer living in a society when if I have a run in with the police,
I won't get shot by some trigger happy cop, because they're not armed either.

From the day of my birth until now,
it has never occurred to me that I was in any danger from any "trigger happy cop",
tho I ofen run into police, standing in line at my local "Dunkin' Donut" Shop.
Unlike mine, their guns r fully exposed. Sometimes we discuss guns, while we wait.
(If u 'll excuse me for bragging), the police have accosted me
at gunnery ranges, commending me upon the beauty of my ordnance.
When I add to my gun collection, I ofen to so with an eye for beauty.
My security concerns have been satisfied long b4 this century.

David

1 Reply

David the Brave wrote:

Quote:

if I were confronted with predatory violence
toward someone whom I admire (a freedom loving politician)
my reflexes woud be activated.

Obviously, the bad guy was very conspicuous.
He 'd have been riddled with gunshots, very swiftly

When a man's an empty kettle
He should be on his mettle
And yet I'm torn apart
Just because I'm presumin'
That I could be a human
If I only had a heart

-E.Y. Harburg

0 Replies

@spendius,

Quote:

Freedom is hardly an anachronistic concept that only our ancestors got to enjoy
but we have to forgo here in the present.

spendius wrote:

Why do you think the 1787 Convention was so long

HOW "LONG" was it SUPPOSED to be???? Will u reveal that to us??

What is the CORRECT length of time
that is to be dedicated to the creation of a republic
that will rise to be the mightiest nation in the history of the world ?

spendius wrote:

and so acrimonious

Was it as acrimonious as arguing baseball? Screaming that loud??
What did u expect ?

spendius wrote:

if it wasn't that freedom was being traded for collective security.

There was a compromize between freedom and "collective security."

spendius wrote:

The whole idea of the Union was to prevent fighting between the states.

That was not "the whole idea".
There had been no "fighting between the states."
That did not become a problem before Lincoln was elected in 1860.

spendius wrote:

Looked at that way your guns are unconstitutional.

That non sequitur is Olympic class colossal STUPIDITY,
the unfounded product of your anti-freedom prejudice.

spendius wrote:

Admit it's psychological.

To this extent, I 'll admit it,
qua my personal history: at age 8, I was a little ill-at-ease,
wondering how I 'd defend my home, if it became necessary to do so.
( I had little factual basis for concern, in that we lived in a safe, quiet naborhood. )
When I took possession of a small frame, 2 inch .38 caliber revolver,
I felt psychologically better, more tranquil & serene -- safer than b4.

So, in compliance with your demand to ADMIT
that it is psychological: that is what u get.

spendius wrote:

Male lingerie. Hence the style.

I wear my guns concealed, as required by NY law.
It is against the law to un-conceal them in public,
unless, of course, u r actually USING them.

If I lived elsewhere, e.g. Vermont,
which has never had any gun laws,
I 'd still wear my guns concealed,
in that I wear 3 piece vested suits,
which do not conduce to carrying of exposed guns.
( U can't very well put a holster on the outside of your jacket. )

spendius wrote:

Sexy.

Guns and sex are not related; not even remotely.
I like them both, but not together, the same as we don't discuss
vertebrate paleontology in symposia for scrutiny of String Theory.
Over the years, decades and centuries,
I have never heard sex discussed nor even hinted at NRA meetings,
nor 2nd Amendment Foundation meetings, nor any gun club that I 've attended.
We have been more concerned with discussion of:

1. Applicable law
and
2. actual gunnery practice with revolvers (my preference), pistols,
submachineguns, shotguns and rifles.

spendius wrote:

Engineered embroidery. Frilly bits.

I will admit that when I add to my gun collection,
the beauty of prospective ordnance is among my criteria.
I vu a new gun as a work of Art, and sometimes as an artifact of history.

Some time ago, I was happy to show a troop of Boy Scouts,
at my favorite gunnery range, some of my revolvers
and a few automatics, including my 1940 9mm German Luger P-'08.
Then I gave their leader a few hundred dollars for ice cream and ammunition, for their enjoyment.

David

4 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

You're not making much of an argument when you have to feign ignorance of English vernacular. You know fully well what I meant by mates. Ingoring facts with a bit of bluster and prejudice doesn't help either. When Gabrielle Gifford was shot there were armed men in the crowd who didn't react. Fact.

Quote:

Someone shot at me
and then fled when he saw my reflective,
stainless steel mirror .44 revolver come into vu

So you didn't actually need a real gun, an imitation would have frightened him off. Over here we don't get shot at, and had you been hit your pistol may not have been of any use at all.

You do seem to like living in a fantasy world where you're the hero, saving bankers politicians and general fat cats from feral outlaws, but it is a fantasy.

You don't know how you'll react in a real crisis, once when I was crossing the road a car shot past me, barely missing me, but smashing into a carrier bag full of groceries that I was carrying. I was gobsmacked, and by the time I'd thought of taking his number plate down he was well gone.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You're not making much of an argument when you have to feign
ignorance of English vernacular.

I mere ly pointed out
that I have not mated with any of them. It did not even occur to me.
For mating purposes, Americans don't go to gun freedom meetings.

I can understand your Queen; not the slightest problem with Churchill, but English vernacular
has slown me down quite a lot; perplexing. That 's no joke.
That is NOT making an argument, Izzy; not at all.

izzythepush wrote:

You know fully well what I meant by mates.

It does not affect the argument at hand.

izzythepush wrote:

Ingoring facts with a bit of bluster [WHAT bluster do u have in mind??] and prejudice doesn't help either.

WHICH facts did I ignore?? Help me out, here.

izzythepush wrote:

When Gabrielle Gifford was shot
there were armed men in the crowd who didn't react. Fact.

What is the source of your information on this point ?
Maybe it coud be possible that some of them were armed.
I have no way of knowing. I was not there to search them.

The way I heard it, an armed citizen ran in from outside
the place of assembly when he heard the gunfire, but it was too late.
It is very possible that u have better information than I do.
Perhaps u will reveal it, if u r so moven.

DAVID wrote:

Someone shot at me
and then fled when he saw my reflective,
stainless steel mirror .44 revolver come into vu

izzythepush wrote:

So you didn't actually need a real gun,
an imitation would have frightened him off.

Izzy, I am VERY shocked
that u suggest that I shud have limited myself to a BLUFF gun!
In your thinking, for WHAT reason woud I possibly want to
intentionally render myself HELPLESS, against the speculative
chance that he MIGHT fall for the bluff?????
Please explain the reason that I 'd NOT want to be as able as possible
to effectively control, to dominate, a predatory emergency???????????
Every predatory event is a contest of power. U KNOW that, right???

In your beliefs, what shud I have done,
if he 'd kept on firing his gun in my direction??????????
What is the correct procedure with a bluff gun, in THAT situation????

I wanna HEAR this.

izzythepush wrote:

Over here we don't get shot at, and had you been hit your pistol may not have been of any use at all.

U choose speculative language, discussing idle chances.
I was as prepared as reasonably possible.
( Incidentally, I did not have much faith in pistols: thay jam too much.
I had a revolver, for better mechanical reliability; did u c the picture?? )
I had been prepared for several decades, since age 8
( tho, admittedly, at that age I did not know that a .38 caliber revolver
has less than optimal stopping power, before I upgraded to a .44 special;
I had not yet heard of the Philippine Insurrection of 1899 ).

izzythepush wrote:

You do seem to like living in a fantasy world where you're the hero, [????]
saving bankers politicians and general fat cats from feral outlaws, but it is a fantasy.

Y do u say such a thing, Izzy????
NEVER in the privacy of my mind,
have I ever thought of such a thing, much less have I posted
anything of the kind. U don't give my laziness enuf credit.
My indolence is exceeded only by my lethargy,
but neither of them can compete with my selfishness (since age O).
If I wanted to be a "hero" as u allege, I 'd have become a fireman, not a lawyer.

Unless I really CARE about someone, I have no inclination
to become involved in violence to rescue such a person.
I usually prefer to mind my own business.
Please explain the reason that u accused me of that.
It has no basis in truth ( nor in fantasy, either ).

If I 'm gonna have a fantasy, it 'll involve especially delightful young ladies
or my winning the MegaMillions Jackpots several times a year, not saving cats.
I 'll call the Fire Dept. 911 to save them. The bankers can save themselves.
( A couple of guys actually did save Donald Trump's mom from a mugger, about a mile from me. )

Mugging = assault & robbery.

izzythepush wrote:

You don't know how you'll react in a real crisis,
once when I was crossing the road a car shot past me,
barely missing me, but smashing into a carrier bag full of groceries
that I was carrying. I was gobsmacked, and by the time I'd thought
of taking his number plate down he was well gone.

I hope that u r OK.
I 'm sorry that your gob got smacked. Is it better now??
Did u go to the hospital ?

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In your beliefs, what shud I have done,
if he 'd kept on firing his gun in my direction??????????
What is the correct procedure with a bluff gun, in THAT situation????

I wanna HEAR this.

Move to a country where such things don't happen. I've never been shot at.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'm sorry that your gob got smacked. Is it better now??
Did u go to the hospital ?

I was fine, as were some of my groceries, but my plums got squashed.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In your beliefs, what shud I have done,
if he 'd kept on firing his gun in my direction??????????
What is the correct procedure with a bluff gun, in THAT situation????

I wanna HEAR this.

izzythepush wrote:

Move to a country where such things don't happen. I've never been shot at.

If I understood u accurately,
u offered the opinion
that I 'd have been better off with a bluff gun.

HOW woud that have served me better??

David

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'm sorry that your gob got smacked. Is it better now??
Did u go to the hospital ?

izzythepush wrote:

I was fine, as were some of my groceries, but my plums got squashed.

That is most regretable.

I guess, in England, plums r called "gobs" ?

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

The imitation would have served you as well be cause he ran off. You told me off for imaginings earlier on so don't you start.

In the UK plums are called plums.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Sorry David, I didn't think you needed a response quite so soon and I'm going to bed. Japan was a regional superpower camped outside a country still trying to come to terms with the 20th Century. It's not a similar situation at all.

U raised the issue of SIZE.
I was addresing that. I might have added
that the Chinese were not known for being as well armed
as average American citizens.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

They didn't eat as many hamburgers either.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

HOW "LONG" was it SUPPOSED to be???? Will u reveal that to us??

For a true Darwinian as long as it took to bang the gavel and declare the meeting adjourned sine die.

Quote:

What is the CORRECT length of time
that is to be dedicated to the creation of a republic
that will rise to be the mightiest nation in the history of the world ?

The time it took to surrender freedom in order to be able to embark on such a journey. The mightiest nation is logically the least free. Free people don't accept the discipline necessary. Is a hobo free to be a hobo in the US. He is here.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

That non sequitur is Olympic class colossal STUPIDITY,
the unfounded product of your anti-freedom prejudice.

Would you mind Dave not parading that baby trick on A2Kers?

0 Replies

Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

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