Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

@oralloy,

Quote:

I think we'll keep defining freedom the way it's always been defined, thank you.

What strange nonsense you do speak. And you believe it, too.

What is clear, with automatic weapons freely available to the public, is that Aurora is destined to be repeated, regularly, over time.

That's the price you're paying, and will pay, for your warped notions about "freedom".

1 Reply

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Where is the right to carry guns a standard definition of freedom? In the NRA?

It is one plank of the definition of freedom, not the entire definition.

The right to go about armed has always been one of the rights of free people under English common law, up until various nations began repealing the right.

I imagine the attitude originated from the time when nobility had the right to go about armed so they could defend themselves, while serfs did not have that right.

You guys may like returning to serfdom, but America is going to remain free.

2 Replies

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Yes. What the rabbit said.

Fear and paranoia.

No fear or paranoia here. Just good wholesome love of freedom.

0 Replies

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

What strange nonsense you do speak. And you believe it, too.

No nonsense. Freedom is important.

McTag wrote:

What is clear, with automatic weapons freely available to the public, is that Aurora is destined to be repeated, regularly, over time.

Do you mean semi-auto? Full auto weapons are not freely available. Even where they are allowed, they are quite a hassle to get.

McTag wrote:

That's the price you're paying, and will pay, for your warped notions about "freedom".

Nah. There would still be massacres even if we gave up our freedom.

But even if it were true that these massacres were in fact the result of our freedom, the freedom would be worth the price.

2 Replies

@McTag,

Quote:

Does "gun control" mean "complete gun ban" for the purposes of this post?
If so, countries have tried it. The only big impact was the loss of freedom.

McTag wrote:

That's an odd definition of "freedom".

No. It is fundamental political freedom.
It is the difference between living in a FREE COUNTRY,
and living in political subjection, in the unlimited discretion of government.

McTag wrote:

Personally I enjoy the freedom from fear,

U are in charge of your EMOTIONS, including love, fear, hate, jealousy,
regardless of the state of the law or the law of the State.
U r autonomous over the domain between your ears, Mr. McTag.

McTag wrote:

of knowing the man I meet is not carrying a gun.

U cannot know that; if a man is wise,
then he will be well armed, regardless of what Mr. McTag KNOWS.
If u met me, u 'd encounter a man who is armed,
as long as I still have the strength to support the weight of a gun.

McTag wrote:

I know that, in this country, a traffic-rage incident is not going to end in a shooting.

We seldom have that happen here; less than half of 1% I'm sure.
2ice within my years, I have been rear-ended by police,
while I was stopped at a STOP sign.

On each of those occasions, I dismounted from my vehicle,
walked back to the police car (first NY City Police and later NY State Police)
and demanded of the officer:
"Let me see your license and registration, please!"
On NEITHER of those occasions did I "fear" that
he 'd open fire on me, and indeed, peace prevailed.

David

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

Nah. There would still be massacres even if we gave up our freedom.

But even if it were true that these massacres were in fact the result of our freedom, the freedom would be worth the price.

Right, that's easy for you to say as you sit in your chair and type away about something you know nothing about - the 'price' these victims are paying for James Holmes to have the freedom to destroy their lives and blow them and their loved ones away while he plays the part in his fantasy world of a 'soldier of misfortune' or the Joker in Gotham City.

Maybe we should ask Ashley Moser if she feels your freedom is worth the price she's paying, now that her six year old daughter has been murdered and she's lying (still not aware yet that her daughter is dead) drifting in and out of consciousness with bullets lodged in her throat and chest.

Listen Oralloy - I am American. But I feel much more free here in England. I can walk the streets, go shopping and to the post office, walk alone anywhere I want all over the country without having to worry about me or one of my family members or friends being accosted or killed by someone with a gun to go along with their grudge or delusion.

2 Replies

(can't find the post to which this was an answer, probably one of oralloy's)Have you ever read David's posts? He was a fearful little eight year old when he first got a gun and he says he hasn;t been fearful since. Without that gun, he's still apparently as fearful as he was at eight. Most of us manage to grow up and not need crutches like guns to get thru life.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

McTag wrote:
What strange nonsense you do speak. And you believe it, too.

No nonsense. Freedom is important.

McTag wrote:
What is clear, with automatic weapons freely available to the public, is that Aurora is destined to be repeated, regularly, over time.

Do you mean semi-auto? Full auto weapons are not freely available. Even where they are allowed, they are quite a hassle to get.

McTag wrote:
That's the price you're paying, and will pay, for your warped notions about "freedom".

Nah. There would still be massacres even if we gave up our freedom.

But even if it were true that these massacres were in fact the result of our freedom, the freedom would be worth the price.

Very well said, Oralloy. I agree with u 1OO%. Fortunately, freedom is on our side.
We were born in a free country.
We shud APPRECIATE it.
I believe that Mr. McTag's comments help me to appreciate our freedom better.

David

0 Replies

oralloy says:

Quote:

But even if it were true that these massacres were in fact the result of our freedom, the freedom would be worth the price.

That is possibly the single most callous, most stupid statement I have seen in this entire debate. Try to tell that to the parents of the kids who were killed.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Have you ever been outside the US? You have no concept of how ridiculous these serf references are. It's truly pathetic...you guys sound like peasants in the 13th century, where people in the next village were seen as likely to harbour strange and terrifying behaviors.

Do you truly believe that people from many countries outside your parochial little orbit are not at least as free as you?

Go and get a life.

2 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

oralloy says:

Quote:
But even if it were true that these massacres were in fact the result of our freedom, the freedom would be worth the price.

That is possibly the single most callous, most stupid statement I have seen in this entire debate.

Interesting how such things are seen so differently. I assume orally believes people in countries with some gun controls go around in fear?

Of course, there is likely to be the odd incident where having a gun with no rules about ownership would be helpful....I am willing to take the risk of that tiny chance so as to live in relative freedom from fear and paranoia.

What is also interesting is that some countries appear able to have as much access to guns as USians without having killing each other as much.

It appears that something about the US makes gun ownership there more dangerous than it is in some other countries.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

The right to go about armed has always been one of the rights of free people under English common law, up until various nations began repealing the right.

I imagine the attitude originated from the time when nobility had the right to go about armed so they could defend themselves, while serfs did not have that right.

You guys may like returning to serfdom, but America is going to remain free.

You have no idea about what serfdom means/meant.

0 Replies

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Where is the right to carry guns a standard definition of freedom? In the NRA?

That consideration is the very most FUNDAMENTAL.

Figuratively speaking, it is the sharpest, the bottom-most part of the giant V.
On the left side of the V, is individual dependence upon the collective, and its henchman, government,
for one's very existence; (think of Reginald Denny in L.A. and of Kitty Genovese in NY).
On the right side of the V is freedom of the Individual,
who relies upon HIMSELF for his well being.

The pivot point is the citizen 's ability to control existential emergencies
in the face of the predatory violence of man or beast.
EVERY predatory event is a contest of power between predator and his victim.
The victim needs to be able to control that situation, to survive it.

A candidate for political office who strongly opposes victim disarmament
is likely to favor personal freedom in many areas of political n economic concern.
He is likely to be a FREEDOM-LOVER,
preferring Individualism over collectivist-authoritarianism.

That counts for a lot.

David

0 Replies

@dlowan,

Though south Africa, which doesn't show up on the gun ownership stats I just found manages to top the gun death table.....they REALLY shouldn't have guns.

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Yes. What the rabbit said.

Fear and paranoia.

I have a fairly decent gun collection,
with ammuntion, upon the basis whereof: I am FEARLESS !

I have posted quite a few times,
that when I was 8, I was alone at home a lot
while my family was away daily attending to our family businesses.
I felt mildly ill-at-ease, in regard to how I 'd defend our home,
if the necessity presented itself (regardless of the fact that we lived in a good n quiet naborhood),
but my sense of disquiet on this point ended PERMANENTLY,
when I got my first gun, a .38 caliber revolver.

Thereafter, I had no paranoia. Guns = peace of mind,
in my experience.

David

0 Replies

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Though south Africa, which doesn't show up on the gun ownership stats I just found
manages to top the gun death table.....they REALLY shouldn't have guns.

The victims need better armament.

David

0 Replies

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Do you truly believe that people from many countries outside your parochial little orbit
are not at least as free as you?

FOR THE RECORD:
I am confident of that.

Tell us how much freedom U have
to develop your defensive gun collection.

David

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

oralloy says:

Quote:
But even if it were true that these massacres were in fact the result of our freedom,
the freedom would be worth the price.

That is possibly the single most callous, most stupid statement I have seen in this entire debate.
Try to tell that to the parents of the kids who were killed.

If I were one of those parents, I 'd wish with a passion
that my child had been a lot better armed; well enuf to successfully defeat the predator.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Call me crazy, but I dont see where the parents of 12 people should get to tell the rest of us 313 million people what to do. I think we had a war and a Declaration of Independence to rid ourselves of that way of living.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Call me crazy, but I dont see where the parents of 12 people
should get to tell the rest of us 313 million people what to do.
I think we had a war and a Declaration of Independence to rid ourselves of that way of living.

OK. Was that comment directed to me ?

I will not dispute your assertion.

David

0 Replies

Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

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