28
   

The British Crown is a useless anachronism.

 
 
contrex
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 01:40 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Foofie is Dutch ... which is only a whisper from being Deutsch.


Jawohl!

0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 02:53 pm
@izzythepush,
Interesting.
And a lesson in the complete interchangeabilty of Royal Creatures.

~~
The Duke of York may have marched his ten thousand men to the top of some hill, but I don't think it was New Amsterdam(New York). We don't have any hills.
Quote:
On August 27, 1664, while England and the Dutch Republic were at peace, four English frigates sailed into New Amsterdam's harbor and demanded New Netherland's surrender, whereupon New Netherland was provisionally ceded by director-general Peter Stuyvesant. This resulted in the Second Anglo-Dutch War, between England and the Dutch Republic. In June 1665, New Amsterdam was reincorporated under English law as New York City, named after the Duke of York (later King James II). He was brother of the English King Charles II, who had been granted the lands.


So, New Amsterdam was taken under false pretenses during a time of peace.

Joe(feking Brits)Nation
Lustig Andrei
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 03:02 pm
@Joe Nation,
I don't know where you got that quote, Joe. Wikipedia, may I assume? It has at least one glaring error -- the English did not rename New Amsterdam New York City. Your home town has never been officially known as New York City. It is simply New York, N.Y. Common error lots of people make. But that's why that relatively small museum up the street from the Met is called The Museum of the City of New York, not The New York City Museum.

You're welcome. Always glad to set the record straight.

(Which, as Grouch Marx, I think, said won't do you a bit of good unless you have a 33 rpm straight record player.)
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 03:25 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Gah!!

No wonder I haven't been getting my mail!!

I learned everything I know from this song I heard on my mother's knee.
(While we were listening to Pete Seeger)

Cloudy in the East, looks like rain,
spent my last nickel on a subway train.
It's New York City,
It's New York City,
It's New York City,
really gonna blow your mind.


Gal walked up to Woody, said Woody "Would he?"
Woody said he would, but the gal said "Could he?"
It's New York City,
It's New York City,
It's New York City,
really gonna blow your mind.


Joe(Now I'm going to have to get all new stationary)Nation
Lustig Andrei
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 03:34 pm
@Joe Nation,





Songwriters: BERNSTEIN, LEONARD / COMDEN, BETTY / GREEN, ADOLPH

Start spreading the news
I am leaving today
I want to be a part of it
New York, New York

These vagabond shoes
They are longing to stray
Right through the very heart of it
New York, New York

I want to wake up in that city
That doesn't sleep
And find I'm king of the hill
Top of the heap

My little town blues
They are melting away
I gonna make a brand new start of it
In old New York

If I can make it there
I'll make it anywhere
It's up to you
New York, New York

[There's more but you get the idea. New York, N.Y.]
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 03:44 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Don't remind me.
I had to sing that song REALLY LOUD at the bar next door after I lost a bet regarding the outcome of a game between the Boston Red Sox and a team that has a local following around here.

Joe(I did myself proud)Nation
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 04:26 pm
@Joe Nation,
I bet you dodge every bar on which that song is going on these days...I use to love it 15 years ago, now I just dodge any tv channel with New York New York adverts...
(...I still love the city but wont contribute to over crowd it as yet another tourist, you guys are becoming close to Venice...the entire middle class of this and the next world is there...)
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 05:03 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Standing in the dock at Southampton,
Trying to get to Holland or France.
The man in the mack said, "You've got to go back",
You know they didn't even give us a chance

Christ you know it ain't easy,
You know how hard it can be.
The way things are going
They're gonna crucify me.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 05:12 pm
@izzythepush,
She stands upon Southampton dock
With her handkerchief
And her summer frock clings
To her wet body in the rain.
In quiet desperation knuckles
White upon the slippery reins
She bravely waves the boys Goodbye again.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 05:13 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 05:56 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

Foofie wrote:
These girls were smart, in my opinion, since with the one life they had to live, they chose a life in the US, and their children and future descendants never would have to worry about a foreign power threatening them.


... but if they had stayed in Britain they wouldn't have had to worry about that either, or at any rate not any more than in the USA of the Cold War. As it was they had to put up with living in a country full of hokey dick heads wearing cowboy hats and saying "yee-haw" all the time, when they weren't busy getting obese on Hostess Twinkies and chawing on 97 ounce steaks.




You might need to watch fewer movies from the US?

If the US was truly populated by "hokey dick heads" then how did it manage to become a world power, land a man on the moon, and win the cold war. Someone must not be a "hokey dick head"?

Meanwhile, Britain has no space program, is not a world super power, and did what to win the cold war? And, many Brits come to the US to have an actual career. Perhaps, some of those WWII "war brides" just liked the way they were treated by American men? The word "romantic" comes to mind. British men are stereotyped as not very romantic, I believe. Perhaps, I'm on to something?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 06:00 pm
@Ticomaya,
Well that one is fun enough to see but I have been bombarded with Carolina Errera, New York New York in cable TV every hour...tell me if you could do that to long...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 06:03 pm
@Foofie,
You have absolutely no idea on England...and while I love America for all those things you mention there's allot more going on in the world worth seeing pal...
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 06:06 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Like I said.

Foofie is Dutch ... which is only a whisper from being Deutsch.



For your information, German-Americans are the largest ethnic group (WASP's are not an ethnic group) in the US. Many of their old line families came after the revolution of 1848, when the liberals lost. German-Americans were anti-slavery, and liberal. They decided collectively to not be so ethnic after WWI, when there was a lot of anti-German propaganda during the war.

Anyway, Germany's loss was America's gain, in my opinion.

Foofie is American. What else could I be? Grandparents came here in the latter 19th century from Czarist Russia. Being a Jew in Russia was sort of persona non grata. In no way do I identify with Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Caucasus Mountains (my four grandparents birthplaces). That's the beauty of the US. We take people from all over the world, and most become just Americans, as soon as the grandparents are not around to talk of the old country, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 06:13 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

You have absolutely no idea on England...and while I love America for all those things you mention there's allot more going on in the world worth seeing pal...


Please don't call me "pal." And, don't give me gratuitous advice as to what there is to see in this world. It is all subjective. I do not tell you not to travel. So, please do not tell me to leave the center of my universe. Interestingly though, if one counts the number of different places that New Yorkers originally came from, it might just appear that the whole world wants to come to NYC and then perhaps move inland? The American culture is, in my opinion, quite seductive, so in one generation many a child of an immigrant is just an "American kid."
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 06:24 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

The diversity, such as it was, was brought to these shores by the Dutch. The English colonies were abject failures, they starved to death in Virginia and barely held on to sanity in Massachusetts Bay. The Dutch knew what they were doing, building a commercial enterprise and the rule is "A customer is a customer."
Despite the British efforts to denigrate the Dutch after taking over, putting into the language such putdowns as :
"You'll be in dutch if you do that." Trouble.
"Going dutch on a deal (or a date) " Everybody pays for their own
"I'm going to treat you like a dutch uncle." Severe discipline.
and others, they weren't able to wrest from the citizens of New York the idea that had been brewing in the city since earlier days~good commerce means not only free trade but free men. (Well, white men anyway.)

If Yonker Adriaen van der Donck had just had a few more years on this earth, we would see him as the true Father of American freedom.

And the Dutch are still here, look at a Mets cap~ those are the colors of the Dutch flag.

Joe(and yes, Yonkers is where Adriaen had his farm)Nation





The fifteen Jewish Sephardic families that were fleeing from the British attacking Recife, Brazil came to New Amersterdam. Peter Stuyvesant did not want to let them stay. He petitioned the Dutch East India Company to say they could not stay. The families ultimately were allowed to stay because the reply from the Dutch East India Company was that Jews in Holland were going to liquidate their shares in the company, if those 15 families were not allowed to stay. They could not have a synagogue. Only after the British took over were these first New York Jews allowed to build a synagogue.

Your feelings towards the British are sort of atavistic, in my opinion (if I understand them), since the US is basically a WASP owned nation, and you have not been treated so badly under their hegemony.

Are your feelings the emotional baggage from a prior generation?
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 06:46 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
So, please do not tell me to leave the center of my universe.


I didn't !

Quote:
The American culture is, in my opinion, quite seductive,


Who said it wasn't ?

...what was your point after all ???
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 07:03 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
...hope you did understood Joe Nation that I meant to say there are far to many tourists in New York and that must be hell to any New Yorker to be confronted time and again with the same clichés...I wouldn't visit precisely because I love it just like I love Venice but wont go there...
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 08:25 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I visited Venice in early March, and New York in early April. No problemo.

Would love to go back to both places at those same times (send money!!).

I tend to walk cities - have a big interest in urban design - and have usually visited in early spring or mid-fall. There can be tourist clumps but they are avoidable. I was in Lucca in late April and saw some clumps, but they were easy to skirt around.

Also, I'm odd - night blind, so I don't waltz around alone at night. Thus I'm an early riser and walker; even with a companion, daylight is way easier. Been in the roman forum almost entirely alone: my husband with me, and two japanese guys a hundred feet away (also in early March). Saw no one else except the ticket guy.

Naturally I'd love to check out London (have only stopped at Heathrow) and (aren't you Portuguese?), Portugal in its entirety.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2012 08:48 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
The Duke of York may have marched his ten thousand men to the top of some hill, but I don't think it was New Amsterdam(New York). We don't have any hills.


Uh . . . so no Marble Hill, Wave Hill, Castle Hill . . . i think you've got this one wrong. From the blurb about the Poe House in the Bronx:

Quote:
Edgar Allan Poe spent the last years of his life, from 1846 to 1849, in The Bronx at Poe Cottage, now located at Kingsbridge Road and the Grand Concourse. A small wooden farmhouse built about 1812, the cottage once commanded unobstructed vistas over the rolling Bronx hills to the shores of Long Island. It was a bucolic setting in which the great writer penned many of his most enduring poetical works, including “Annabel Lee,” “The Bells” and “Eureka.”


What about Brooklyn Heights? No hills, huh . . .
 

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