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Supporting Israel?

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danieleli54
 
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:44 am
I am pro-israel. I would like to know how it is possible for me to be actively involved in supporting Israel???
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,647 • Replies: 62
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:51 am
Send money to pro-Israeli causes and charities, become pro-active in your local temple, become active in grass-root campaigns to keep America involved in Israel, become aware of local organizations and groupds that think the same way you do. I am sure there are other ways, but these were the first ones I thought of.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:52 am
At least be aware of your congressperson's attitudes.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 12:48 pm
truth
I've always been pro-Isreal, almost to be point of absolutism. That presents a dilemma today. How do I support Isreal "unconditionally" when I see that much of its policy toward the Palestinians is morally reprehensible (in agreement with many Isrealis) and ultimately politically suicidal?
I would like to give Texas to the Jews and send the Texans to Florida--except for Molly Ivins, of course.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 06:49 pm
Re: Supporting Israel?
danieleli54 wrote:
I am pro-israel. I would like to know how it is possible for me to be actively involved in supporting Israel???


Well, you should begin by examining why you are pro-Israel, which hopefully will force you to recognize how retarded that position is given the current state of affairs, thus, riding you of your dilemma. I suspect, however, that like most pro-Israeli people, your support of Israel is based on emotion rather than rationality.
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rufio
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 08:34 pm
Wow, that was an incredibly rational and non-emotional post.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 09:48 pm
I support Isreal, they are one of the countries I root for.

Right now I am rooting for their moderates to regain some of the control over their country that they lost so that their extremists do not continue to endanger them through their expentionism.

I support their peaceful return to 67ish borders and their widthdrawal from the territories.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 09:54 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
I support Isreal, they are one of the countries I root for.

Right now I am rooting for their moderates to refain some of the control over their country that they lost so that their extremists do not continue to endanger them through their expentionism.

I support their peaceful return to 67ish borders and their widthdrawal from the territories.


I agree. But I wouldn't call that support of Israel. According to your statement you do not support the current Israeli leadership or the current Israeli policies. I don't see how that qualifies as support. Feel free to call it whatever you want, though.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 10:05 pm
I support a country in Palestine that does not mandate the maintenance of an ethnic/religious "character" to the detriment and discrimination of its minorities.
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Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 10:26 pm
I feel sympathetic for the Jews - the whole reason the world schlepped them to Israel was to aviod persecution, but there were already people there (which makes me sympathetic to them also.) I say, the Isralis are there and they should keep their land. You've got to live somewhere. The Isralis also tend to be a lot better about human rights issues (esecially womans rights) than their neighbors to the East.

As long as that area is viewed to be "the holy land" there will be endless conflict. There was another place like that, a long time ago. I think it was in Africa...

I don't know of any specific charities you could contribute to, but maybe you could find out what someone you trust does (an activist, a teacher) who has the same opinions as you.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 10:56 pm
I think Craven is right on the money. You won't catch me standing in front of any bulldozers though.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 11:53 pm
IronLionZion wrote:
I agree. But I wouldn't call that support of Israel. According to your statement you do not support the current Israeli leadership or the current Israeli policies. I don't see how that qualifies as support. Feel free to call it whatever you want, though.


Policy and nations are not equally static or dynamic.

I support Isreal, I like the people and many elements of the culture.

I have rarely supported their policy, but I think that to equate demographic groups to dynamic behavior is dangerous. It's the basis of stereotypical generalizations.

I detest some of the policy, I do not detest the nation and the people.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 12:59 am
Craven de Kere wrote:
Policy and nations are not equally static or dynamic.

I support Isreal, I like the people and many elements of the culture.

I have rarely supported their policy, but I think that to equate demographic groups to dynamic behavior is dangerous. It's the basis of stereotypical generalizations.

I detest some of the policy, I do not detest the nation and the people.


....at the risk of getting bogged down in semantics:

I support the people and culture of every nation equally. I do not like or dislike, support or oppose, people based on thier culture. Therefore, when discussing support of a nation I take it for granted that we are talking about the current political situation.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 02:45 am
Not even a few sneaky favourites amongst the world community, ILZ?

At the moment I am very fond of East Timor, for instance.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 02:47 am
Also - do you not think a country has a sort of essence, beyond the political/policy decisions of the moment, which endures for longer than those decisions?

Of course, those decisions, over time, contribute to the essence.....
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Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 02:48 pm
I am a firm believer in judging people by their actions. One shouldn't judge a country by only their political leaders (especially if those leaders are not chosen by the people/thier actions aren't sanctioned by the people), but if the county's populace routinely violates human rights I am not apt to feel sympathy for them.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:43 am
dlowan wrote:
Also - do you not think a country has a sort of essence, beyond the political/policy decisions of the moment, which endures for longer than those decisions?

Of course, those decisions, over time, contribute to the essence.....


Since opinions about nations are used to justify various sorts of foreign policies, I think those opinions should be held to a more stringent standard than "I like those people." The billions we give to Israel yearly, for example, have no pragmatic usefullness, and are based almost wholly on our cultural affinity for them.

I may identify with or admire some nations and cultures more than others, but those are largely irrational feelings, and I would never let those opinions get in the way of decisions such as whether or not to support Israel, as the originator of this thread is contemplating.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 12:55 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I think Craven is right on the money. You won't catch me standing in front of any bulldozers though.
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/video/us/2003/03/17/rt.protest.killed.vs.kiro.jpg It occurred to me that my previous post might be misunderstood. I was referring to this tragic event. I admire her intentions, but wouldn't be her.
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Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:01 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I think Craven is right on the money. You won't catch me standing in front of any bulldozers though.
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/video/us/2003/03/17/rt.protest.killed.vs.kiro.jpg It occurred to me that my previous post might be misunderstood. I was referring to this tragic event. I admire her intentions, but wouldn't be her.


I don't. She would have been of much more use writing letters and doing small actions than risking her life in a publicity stunt. I feel the same way about monks that set themselves on fire.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:12 am
Portal Star wrote:
I don't. She would have been of much more use writing letters and doing small actions than risking her life in a publicity stunt. I feel the same way about monks that set themselves on fire.
Shocked LOL. You have somehow managed to misunderstand my clarification. I agree with you completely about the method she chose.
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