7
   

Applying the definition of marriage to real life application.

 
 
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:21 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Come on wise old man, you're letting the worst self get the best of you.

On the surface, the principles of majority rule and the protection of individual and minority rights would seem contradictory. But such principles are the pillars of the foundation of a democratic government.

Quote:
Look, the tide has turned sufficiently for public opinion now to accept that gays have the same rights as straightsand that

these rights should include the right to enter into certain types of contractual obligations, e.g. marriage. It is that

simple.

That is the case now, what was the case before this, in 1990? in 1980? in 1970? should I go on?
Do you remember Nixon had a passion filled hate towards homosexuals?

What differentiates a homosexuals who are not related to each other for the right to marry versus two homosexuals who are both first cousins to each other for the right to marry?



A guy comes to a2k not to argue but to clear the confusion on the matter, and interestingly gets blamed for supposedly making an argument for incest couples to marry?

Is it because incest couples are sexual deviant? But that sounds similar to the argument of anti-gay individuals remark to the gay community.
What is deviant?

What is the reason that Incest couple remains a taboo while being gay is not?

Is incest relationship a choice or born with?


My post is a valid question but all of you are considering it a taboo to ask, and dodging it one way or other, but Butterflynet, who at least told her opinion?

Why?

Why are most of you trying to dodge a bullet?

This isn't a tricky question for lucrative means in anyway.


parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:37 pm
@Val Killmore,
I did read your original post. You used non existent extremes to create a slippery slope argument that doesn't really exist in the real world. When asked to come up with examples it seems you can't come up with any recent ones. All the instances you list are not really adults of equal footing agreeing to something.

First cousins are not really considered incest. There are several states that allow marriage of first cousins. So if you want to go down the cousin route as incest then it's already allowed under certain circumstances.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:39 pm
@parados,
The first cousins example is hard to work with as it's a traditional concept to keep property/money in a family/clan.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:39 pm
@Val Killmore,
Quote:

A guy comes to a2k not to argue but to clear the confusion on the matter, and I get blamed for "supposedly" making an argument for incest couples to marry?

No, you get rightly pegged of making a fallacious slippery slope argument which you then try to pretend isn't really fallacious. You aren't attempting to clear the confusion on any matter. You are attempting to obfuscate and argue extremes.
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:43 pm
@parados,
Extremes for simplicity sake, sorry, if that was a mistake.
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:47 pm
@parados,
Quote:
First cousins are not really considered incest.


Didn't know that, so in the past such relationships were incest, but now it is not.
It seems the politicians are changing the definition as need by the people who make it see how it fits their lifestyle.
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:50 pm
@parados,
You really think taboos of such nature will be made public in the western culture?
Does that mean it doesn't happen?
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 09:56 pm
@parados,
Nope that is what you are imagining my post to be.

I did not have intentions to "argue" or "obfuscate."
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 10:05 pm
@Val Killmore,
Quote:
What is the reason that Incest couple remains a taboo while being gay is not?


Val, please don't tell me you really are this dense. Do you really not understand what is the difference between an incest couple and a same-sex couple?

Here's a hint: Biological offspring.
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 10:08 pm
@Val Killmore,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

Quote:
Incest is sexual intercourse between close relatives that is illegal in the jurisdiction where it takes place or is socially taboo (or both) and can be illegal or legal depending on the jurisdiction.
The exact definition, including the nature of the relationship between people, and the types of sexual activity, vary by country, and by even individual states or provinces within a country. These laws can also extend to marriage between said individuals.
When incest involves an adult and a child it is considered to be a form of child sexual abuse.

In the United States the District of Columbia and every state, except Rhode Island, have some form of codified incest prohibition.[28] However, individual statutes vary widely. Rhode Island repealed its criminal incest statute in 1989,[28] Ohio only targets parental figures,[28] and New Jersey does not apply any penalties when both parties are 18 years of age or older.[28] Massachusetts issues a penalty of up to 20 years' imprisonment for those engaging in sexual activities with relatives closer than first cousins[28] and Hawaii up to 5 years in jail for "sexual penetration" with certain blood relatives and in-laws.[28]
In all states, close blood-relatives that fall under the incest statutes include father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, and in some states, first cousins, although Rhode Island allows uncles to marry their nieces if they are part of a community, such as orthodox Jews, for whom such marriages are permitted. Many states also apply incest laws to non-blood relations including stepparents, step-siblings, and in-laws.[29]
UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh has questioned the rationale behind laws prohibiting incest, at least as they apply to sex between adults.[30]
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 08:25 am
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

Extremes for simplicity sake, sorry, if that was a mistake.

Arguing from extremes isn't "for simplistic sake". It is simplistic and it is fallacious. It isn't a good argument.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 08:27 am
@Val Killmore,
Quote:

I did not have intentions to "argue" or "obfuscate."

Oh, so you are just too stupid to make a valid argument? Since you didn't intend to do that then we must assume you only did it out of lack of intelligence.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 08:30 am
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

Quote:
First cousins are not really considered incest.


Didn't know that, so in the past such relationships were incest, but now it is not.
It seems the politicians are changing the definition as need by the people who make it see how it fits their lifestyle.
Different societies shade it differently.
Another problem with your argument is the available pool of persons in the group.
A heterosexual has several billion people to choose a mate from
A homosexual has several hundred million people to choose a mate from.
An incestuous relationship has less than a dozen people to choose from.



And you still haven't dealt with the point that incest often involves a relationship that starts when one person is not an adult. That violates the "consenting adult" rule for marriages.
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 11:42 am
@parados,
No fool, if you don't intend to put incest couples right to marry, why do idiotic gay proponents fling around such definition that I posted in the original post.

I say to you, give me a one sentence definition of marriage that puts out the incest couple to marry out of the equation, with reason of course.

Anybody can say: Marriage is a union of love between two consenting adult, except if the adults are related to each other.

With the definition that gay proponents and this idiotic college kids use without critical thinking, it makes it possible for incest couples to marry, if the requirements in the definition is met.
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 11:43 am
@parados,
I don't give a **** about the economics, I'm more interested in how gay proponents define marriage.
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 11:56 am
@Butrflynet,
Actually I think your ear is full of cotton.

Didn't I say, as long as multi-sex couple who is not allowed to have kids in my OP.
What if it's a homosexual partnership, incest related?
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 11:56 am
@Butrflynet,
This only gives more proof that it depends on the politics of a state.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 11:58 am
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

This only gives more proof that it depends on the politics of a state.


If you live within a society, just about everything in your pathetic little life does, junior.
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 12:00 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Really?

I thought ethics wasn't related to politics?

Aren't you familiar with sexual ethics?
It's in no way finished, but a work in progress.
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2012 01:02 pm
@parados,
I'm not arguing for anything. Listen to yourself.
I'm saying such extremes are possibilities with the definition.

Quote:
It is simplistic and it is fallacious

Not fallacious at all according to the definition given in the original post.
 

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