Are lies and misconceptions the basis of Christianity?

Phoenix32890 wrote:

When these tenets are questioned, the comfort provided by blindly accepting the religious doctrines are put into into controversy, which again creates more anxiety. Rather than thinking through the inconsistencies that are presented, the believer will tend to go on the attack, flailing against anything that might cause a chink in his belief system.

JLNobody wrote:

Terry, as you know by now I think we do see "ultimate truth" every second of our lives but do not recognize "it" (because we cover it over with thoughts, models, desires, expectations, etc.).

fresco wrote:

"....from my point of view that "reality" as a social construction, the positive or negative connotations placed on different versions of such reality are not normally (consciously) "engineered" but are part of the interplay of social interactions between new and existing social structures.

Sounds like most human beings don't want to know the "ultimate truth"!!! What good is Truth, anyway, as long as we can live with our comforting beliefs and have no reason to look beyond them?

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IronLionZion

A suggestion.....

Check out the "reality thread" and then reconsider your usage of "real".

... what matters may simply be the social consequences of your "decision" since what counts as "evidence" may also be social. (Perhaps there are no "facts" except "social facts")

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lolli wrote:

WOW!!! I can see that all of the minds that have posted their opinions here are very, um, shall we say, open-minded! Ya'll really. Talking, or shall I say, typing, gets one nowhere as far as debating the origin of Christianity. It's alot of reading 'dead' languages, studying scientific research and (oh no, it's that all dreaded word) faith!! Oh my goodness, I said it. If you're going to stake your opinion of the 'misconceptions and lies' of Christianity on a character such as Thomas Paine (who shall I mention has no religion that worships him and no such credentials in the world of spirituality), you are more open-minded than I thought. Yes! That is verrrry sarcastic, and I am refering to the opening statement posted on the forum. It's enough to piss a gentle soul off, brother!

lolli, welcome to A2K. Smile

Rather than attacking anyone's character, why not tell us where you think Paine was wrong in his assessment of the prophecies?

BTW, we are not all "brothers" here, sister. :wink:

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Terry,

To some extent I think you are correct.

What people "want" is to be "right" i.e. to successfully predict, or to take out insurance. "ordinary truth" is essentially hindsight not foresight , and "ultimate truth" may require the removal of the "self" as the one who does the wanting and predicting.(.....=nonduality...?)

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IronLionZion wrote:

Faith is a euphemism for delusion. Further, you'd think that if the Christian God was real, and he wanted me to come into the fold, he would have provided me with something better than a history of wonton murder, lies, and institutionalized ignorance for me to base my decision on.

You would think so. I wonder why the Word of God has not been officially updated in almost two millennia? Considering how many aspects of modern life the writers of the Bible failed to foresee:

Men walking on the moon, the ISS, Mars rovers, Hubble telescope.
The United Nations, the discovery and colonization of the western hemisphere, guns, the atomic bomb. (God did make use of chemical and biological warfare, however).
Radio, television, computers, cell phones, photographs, laser printers, CD players, pipe organs.
Automobiles, submarines, balloons, planes, rockets, satellites, bicycles, rollerblades, robots, talking dolls.
Synthetic fiber blends (nor shall there come upon you a garment of cloth made of two kinds of stuff Lev. 19:19)
Women rulers of countries, democracy, cats as pets, amusement parks
Heart transplants, blood transfusions, cloning, AIDS, vaccines

Not to mention problems that God neglected to make rules for:

Domestic abuse. Pornography. Recreational drug use. Abortion. Copying music on the internet. Child custody. Water rights. Nuclear waste disposal. Monopolies such as Microsoft. Land claims of Native Americans (OT solution was to slaughter other tribes and take their land, livestock, and virgins.) Obesity. Smokers' rights. What vitamins to take. Whether or not playing cards is sinful. What to do with surplus in-vitro embryos. Decency in media. Computer viruses.

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IronLionZion wrote:

Faith is a euphemism for delusion. Further, you'd think that if the Christian God was real, and he wanted me to come into the fold, he would have provided me with something better than a history of wonton murder, lies, and institutionalized ignorance for me to base my decision on.

ILZ, you should write a book... about anything. You have a real way with words. I'm quite serious.

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Terry,
Thank you for welcoming me. I'm so sorry if you feel attacked. I couldn't tell from reading all the postings that the minds of this forum were all that foreign to attacking other's beliefs themselves. Don't like your medicine, don't give it out! OH, and brother, maybe you'd be a little more open-minded if you were a brother in the sense of the word. Thanks for considering me a sister!! Brother!!!

IronLionZion,
You have more problems than just cynicism. A critical soul tends to be a wounded heart.

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lolli wrote:

Terry,
IronLionZion,
You have more problems than just cynicism. A critical soul tends to be a wounded heart.

I do have more problems than mere cynicism. Chief among them is the fact that I live in a nation ruled by religious wackos, and a president whose blind faith and lack of his own ideology has lead to some insanely counter-productive policies and absurd laws. When belief systems are used to justify various sorts of social policy, believers ought to be held to a more stringent standard than "just 'cause" or "thats what my mommy told me" or "the devil ran my dog over" or whatever other irrational epistemology you use to predicate your beliefs on.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

ILZ, you should write a book... about anything. You have a real way with words. I'm quite serious.

Heh. Thanks, Bill. I hope I have a way with words, as I intend to pursue a career in journalism.

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IronLionZion,
You do have a way with words! I'm sure you'll fit right in with other journalists. It tends to be a crowd that shares your beliefs. I believe, liberal would be the correct term. Surely, you'll always have a friend that shares your opinion in that crowd.

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IF some god would show itself (when I am awake and sober) I would be glad to believe in it. Personally I tend to discount dreams, visions and hallucinations. If Dolly Parton or (another enchantress) had indeed visited me there should have been a blonde hair on my pillow.

Since it is fairly obvious that no god has shown itself to anyone then I must hypothesise that one probably doesn't exist.

Since again if someone claims that some sort of god exists and cannot show any indication of its existence then I must regretfully conclude that that person is effectually a liar, whether it is intended or not.

Consequently I must conclude that lies and misconceptions are the basis of most religions. Christianity, and the other Abrahamics specifically included!

This would be of no consequence EXCEPT that some people believe that the lies and misconceptions are true (actual facts), simply because they wish it to be so.

When this person becomes, inadvisedly perhaps, a president, an ayatollah, a parent, or a teacher then it is apt to cause difficulties for other humans, whether intended or not. Sad

Micaih, Re. your comment as to the relative number of Agnostics and Athiest in this category the reason may be that those classes of persons are a bit more interested in the abuses that can be laid at the feet of organized religion. We've got nowhere else to go. We must fix this world, at least for the time being :wink:

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Ok, ya'll,
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16
You have to look for faith! It doesn't come naturally! You have to try it to understand the other side of the fence. What have you got to lose?
Bye
God bless

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lolli wrote:

Ok, ya'll,
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16
You have to look for faith! It doesn't come naturally! You have to try it to understand the other side of the fence. What have you got to lose?
Bye
God bless

Some of us have. I have read (most of) the bible. What have you got to lose by considering the other arguments?

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Quote:

You have to try it to understand the other side of the fence.

Oh, I certainly do understand the other side of the fence. And that is precisely why I give the entire matter little credence.

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If the best selling point is "Come on, what do you have to lose?" I'm not buying. And to answer that question, what do I have to lose? Well, freedom for one. "I won't be a slave, to a God that isn't real."

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Child of the Light wrote:

If the best selling point is "Come on, what do you have to lose?" I'm not buying. And to answer that question, what do I have to lose? Well, freedom for one. "I won't be a slave, to a God that isn't real."

I thought you were religious, child of the light?

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I guess I'm spiritual, but I am not fond of Christianity.

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Are lies and misconceptions the basis of Christianity?

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