God as a natural need

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Before we start to discuss about if God does or does not exist, we should think about what leads us to God. It's faith. Where does our faith comes from? Even old primitive cultures were making their own gods. People just need something to believe in.
But what about atheists? It can be exception confirming the rule. But on the other hand isn't atheism also a form of belief? They believe that god does not exist. They believe in their own strenght, in power of humanity.
It is the same thing. God and human, both are unpredictable. We don't know what God is going to do and we also can not predict what will happen to us.
So we can take it as a physiological need to believe in something unpredictable.
Both atheism and others religions can satisfy our need.
so what do you think about it??

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[+3] - fresco - 05/16/2012I agree that deism is a statistically natural need for (cognate) humans. It is the price we pay for our incomplete capacity to predict and control our lives. When we ultimately fail in this quest,...

@bruchann,

I agree that deism is a statistically natural need for (cognate) humans. It is the price we pay for our incomplete capacity to predict and control our lives. When we ultimately fail in this quest, we tend to delegate "causality" to a deity, whose characteristics are culture specific, and serve to reify tribal instincts, and power structures.

Make no mistake, the atheist does not have an alternative belief system....rather he sees through this myth of establishing a catch-all causal agent which has psychological and social functions, and he is often uneasy or reactionary towards the pernicious social aspects of organized religion. The atheist makes no claim for "human power" to provide ultimate control. (Totalitarian "atheists" are merely theists by another name having replaced worship of a celestial leader with worship of a secular one).

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Totalitarian "atheists" are merely theists by another name having replaced worship of a celestial leader with worship of a secular one

Which secular leader do they worship?

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@bruchann,

bruchann wrote:

Before we start to discuss about if God does or does not exist, we should think about what leads us to God. It's faith. Where does our faith comes from? Even old primitive cultures were making their own gods. People just need something to believe in.

Conjecture. People are motivated by needing something to believe in. This couldn't be any more inaccurate. Early people looking at reality were confused by events that would take place. There was power in the ability to explain these happenings. This power gave control ability over the others if you could rightfully explain their happenings. It would mean you have knowledge that others do not, therefore you should obey those who know because they could use their knowledge against you.

bruchann wrote:

But what about atheists? It can be exception confirming the rule. But on the other hand isn't atheism also a form of belief? They believe that god does not exist.

No, your definition is completely wrong. Athiests do not believe there is no god. (although some might) That is not the definition nor the position of most atheists. It is a lack of belief. Therefore atheism isn't a belief system nor a positive assertion that there are no gods. Your premise here is flawed.

bruchann wrote:

They believe in their own strenght, in power of humanity.
It is the same thing. God and human, both are unpredictable. We don't know what God is going to do and we also can not predict what will happen to us.

An atheist isn't concerned about this because many natural events can be explained through natural means. For example many theists try to claim when a natural disaster happens it is the work of their god to send a message to humanity. This is absurd because why go in an indirect method? Why not send the message in a more powerful way? In a way that can't be dismissed as a natural occurance? This is because there is no god, and the natural event is just the natural result of known physics and chemistry.

bruchann wrote:

So we can take it as a physiological need to believe in something unpredictable.

Maybe for you. But not everything is unpredictable. Not only that but we are understanding more and more about reality and become increasingly more capible of making predictions about reality.

bruchann wrote:

Both atheism and others religions can satisfy our need.
so what do you think about it??

I think your premises are flawed and your reasoning is incredibly weak at best. I can't tell if you are trying to bring atheism down into religion since theism is incredibly weak or you are trying to bring theology up to that of atheism. Either way, your propositions are faulty.

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Isn't part of it people needed to find a way to explain the "why" of things, and attributed it to a diety?

Then, it became habit.

I honestly think a lot of people believe in God out of habit.

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Gotta be honest with ya, Bruchann, I had a really lousy time on the golf course this morning and I need to discuss things that will help me get out of my funk.

I've been watching Downton Abbey recently...and I think it really is a terrific series. I've also been watching Game of Thrones. Great production.

Anyway...that aside...you sure chose one hell of a topic for this forum. I am going to follow this one from beginning to end!

Good luck!

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@bruchann,

I think the more basic human need at the root of the development of religion is the need to understand things. In the primitive world, nearly devoid of empirical information from which to form theories, anthropomorphizing things was the logical way to go.

Along with the need to understand things as a survival mechanism, there is also the need/benefit of controlling and grouping people together into a common cause. By pure coincidence, religion also allowed charismatic leaders to control people, and religious bureaucracy was born.

At this point in human civilization I think religion survives primarily as a result of legacy being passed from generation to generation. And the bureaucracy has taken on a life of its own, surviving through continuous effort to proselytize and indoctrinate for the purpose of power and control.

But in no way is "God" a natural need for humanity. It's the natural result of a predictable error in logic from prehistory, carried through history by foibles of human nature.

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@rosborne979,

what I said, but you were much more eloquent.

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

I think the more basic human need at the root of the development of religion is the need to understand things. In the primitive world, nearly devoid of empirical information from which to form theories, anthropomorphizing things was the logical way to go.

Along with the need to understand things as a survival mechanism, there is also the need/benefit of controlling and grouping people together into a common cause. By pure coincidence, religion also allowed charismatic leaders to control people, and religious bureaucracy was born.

At this point in human civilization I think religion survives primarily as a result of legacy being passed from generation to generation. And the bureaucracy has taken on a life of its own, surviving through continuous effort to proselytize and indoctrinate for the purpose of power and control.

But in no way is "God" a natural need for humanity. It's the natural result of a predictable error in logic from prehistory, carried through history by foibles of human nature.

I also said the same thing, but yours is a much nicer way of putting it.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

what I said, but you were much more eloquent.

There's something to be said for brevity as well, and I think you got me there Wink

But I think we're saying the same thing.

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@InfraBlue,

Totalitarian regimes such as under Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Il .

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@Krumple,

I think similar answers were given in a thread from a few months ago, but I can't find it.

I think the thread related to a reported scientific paper which speculated that the human brain had some type of "requirement" to believe in "God". I wish I could remember it better.

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Note that the difference between Rosborne's answer and my own is that I have stressed that deism has played a major social role in the regulation of societies. It is not merely a "solution" to "the unexplained". In that sense, brain chemistry may only part of the story.

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This theme is pretty strange. Cause on the other hand there is too many inexplicable things.
And honestly I can not imagin how scientists wants to explain things such as creation of univers. How can be something created of nothing. But God was then created too. Even if some people sais that he didn't need to be created because he is out of time, that he exists in the futer, present and past at the same time.. but when he exist in time , he depends on time.. so he had to be created..

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@bruchann,

bruchann wrote:

How can be something created of nothing.

To actually believe this, you have to assume that there was a time when there was absolutely nothing. I don't think there are really any cosmologists who make that claim. Usual big bang theorists say there was at least something, a sigularity which is a point of immense density of probably energy. I rarely find a cosmologist who says there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. I still think there would have to be energy of some sort.

If there was energy, doesn't even matter how much energy, all you need is a tiny amount. From that you can get everything. Because matter is really nothing more than energy in a different form. Everything in the universe is energy. All the stars, planets, asteroids, moons ect are all energy.

So yes, you can get something from nothing.

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@chai2,

Chai2 wrote:

I honestly think a lot of people believe in God out of habit.

Do you mean that they believe in god while naked?

Habit:

Quote:

4. Outward appearance; attire; dress; hence, a garment; esp., a closely fitting garment or dress worn by ladies; as, a riding habit.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy.

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@Strauss,

Now now Strauss, I'll have nun of that.

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@Krumple,

In a nutshell, my belief in God (yes, I capitalize that) is Energy.

It cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

Yes, anything can happen when there is enough time.

It annoys me when creationists say anything like "The chances are so small that certain things could come together in a certain way...."

Seasons don't fear the Reaper, and there's plenty of time for anything to happen.

Energy is eternal.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

fresco wrote:
Totalitarian "atheists" are merely theists by another name having replaced worship of a celestial leader with worship of a secular one

Which secular leader do they worship?

Justin Bieber

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

In a nutshell, my belief in God (yes, I capitalize that) is Energy.

I have heard this a lot but it really doesn't help to add this baggage onto energy. Energy is not intelligent and it has limitations. So do you really want to call a god = energy? Most people say a god is not limited and it is intelligent. Both properties which energy does not have. This is why I wouldn't label energy as a god or a god as energy.

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God as a natural need

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