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WHAT MADE YOU GRIMACE & GRIT YOUR TEETH TODAY?

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:07 pm
"Angela was unable to comprehend that she had done wrong" - and died saying that.

She is by no means unusual in sincerely believing such crap, amongst child sexual abusers.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:11 pm
sozobe wrote:
Awful.

I guess what I'm hoping is that a front page NYT article might be the start of high profile enough.


Yes!!!

But I am also hoping it does not trigger enough trauma in some affected folk that we have a rash of suicides - or even murder-suicides. Unfortunately, one such highly publicised event can trigger suicides amongst other young people - well known effect. Hope folk are supporting each other well.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:16 pm
Just recalled something that made me grimace and grit my teeth.

One of the high-profile paedophiles who was recently imprisoned wasa magistrate - and a prominent leader in the kids section of his local surf-lifesaving club (sadly, a typical placement of themselves for paedophiles)

A client of mine disclosed - FIFTEEN YEARS AGO - an incident with this man - (not that knew who he was at the time) - the kid would only give the offender's first name - but I badgered the hell out of the local child-protection people - telling them that they had a paedophile in the X Surf Lifesaving Club - whose first name was Peter - they refused to investigate.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:29 pm
I remember my best friend as a kid taking part in organized protests in the streets, decrying the "lies" that had come out in a Japanese tabloid & was starting to make the major papers. She was instructed by her mother (a regional leader) to tell anyone who would listen that her & her friends were exceptionally well taken care of. She was maybe 13 & had been regularly raped. I was 7 & I was lucky.

I helped to burn books & internal literature, too, but copies of some of the worst material ("davidito" isn't) is out there if anyone in law enforcement cared enough to pursue it even a little. Then again, like Craven said, the literature alone has never been enough for anything.

I know several members who've changed their legal names...in the case I'm thinking of it was to be allowed back into a country after being blacklisted for reentry.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:31 pm
This is amazingly difficult stuff to learn about.
0 Replies
 
Monger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:37 pm
dlowan wrote:
"Angela was unable to comprehend that she had done wrong" - and died saying that.

She is by no means unusual in sincerely believing such crap, amongst child sexual abusers.

I do not know that she, personally, took part in child sexual abuse, specifically, but then I know little of the woman. She was taking a temporary break from the group when Ricky killed her, and the Family says she was not personally one of Ricky's nannies...of that I do not know. However, she was about as close to Ricky's mom as one could get....being one of her right-hand people & her personal secretary for many, many years.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:44 pm
That sucks, dlowan.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:51 pm
John, my ex, and his brother, were friends with a girl who suddenly disappeared into the C of G. Their family and the girl's family kept in touch for many years. I know the sadness thirdhand, but it has touched me through them - the family was devastated, never got over it.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:57 pm
Here's something that relates to what dlowan has posted:

From Psycological Assesment of Children in The Family

Lawrence Lilliston
Department of Psychology
Oakland University

and Gary Shepherd
Department of Sociology and Anthropology
Oakland University

Quote:
The Family has been particularly susceptible to such charges and has historically been targeted by critics because of their liberal attitudes toward sexuality, although these attitudes and practices have not remained static over the years. This liberal attitude toward sexuality, along with the commitment to communal living, has been sufficient to cause The Family a great deal of trouble over the years. Moreover, some critics have suggested that the liberal attitude toward sex has not been restricted to adults but has involved sexual relationships between adults and children. In 1993, the American media has highlighted these charges in several news stories involving children being removed from homes around the world and adults being charged with sexual abuse. The basis for these charges lies in the testimony of ex- members who report that they were sexually abused as children in The Family. As supporting evidence, these ex-members frequently cite The Story of Davidito , typically referred to as the Davidito Book, which is a work describing the early life of David, the adopted son of a founder and leader, David Berg, and the natural son of Berg's wife, Maria. Critics suggest that this book is a manual for sexual abuse of young children. It is worth noting that in all cases in which children have been removed from homes of The Family around the world, no evidence for sexual abuse has been found. The Davidito book does relate David's early witnessing of sexual behavior and encouragement to explore his own sexuality, and while these experiences would be characterized as sexually abusive or neglectful by most child abuse experts, there is no report of his having been actively molested or abused by adults. Moreover, there is no evidence of long-term negative effects on David. The first author, a clinical child psychologist with thirty years of experience, recently administered a psychological evaluation to David, who is now nineteen, and found him to be a bright, well-adjusted, and emotionally strong young man.



A lot of people were cleared by similarly flawed pyschological evaluations.

Well-adjusted emotionally strong people do not do what Ricky did. There was ample evidence for long term negative effects and they culminated in this.

What really pisses me off is his mother's callous refusal to admit any wrong and she's now blaming this on her "detractors" for introducing negativity to Ricky's life.

She has a lot of gall, but she's protecting her cash cow (she gets a lot of money from their "tithe").
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 11:10 pm
Monger wrote:

I do not know that she, personally, took part in child sexual abuse, specifically, but then I know little of the woman.


Someone quoting from the Davadito book wrote:
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 11:14 pm
I was about to edit what I'd written there, after hearing from Sarafina who was good friends with Ricky.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 11:21 pm
Monger wrote:
I was about to edit what I'd written there, after hearing from Sarafina who was good friends with Ricky.


I just emailed her, she's looking for a way to distribute Ricky's video and I offered to host it.

If you talk to her ask her to get the video to me.
0 Replies
 
Monger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 11:38 pm
sozobe wrote:
Obviously Rodriguez found this woman -- seems like there must be some sort of sting operation possible, wires, conversations...?

Child sexual abuse is no longer very common in the group (these days they will excommunicate someone for sexual abuse...though they have yet to once report a paedophile to authorities), & physical abuse is also less frequent now...but other beliefs they hold are weirder than ever, & it changes little for the hundreds of people affected for life who seek justice.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:08 am
Monger wrote:
dlowan wrote:
"Angela was unable to comprehend that she had done wrong" - and died saying that.

She is by no means unusual in sincerely believing such crap, amongst child sexual abusers.

I do not know that she, personally, took part in child sexual abuse, specifically, but then I know little of the woman. She was taking a temporary break from the group when Ricky killed her, and the Family says she was not personally one of Ricky's nannies...of that I do not know. However, she was about as close to Ricky's mom as one could get....being one of her right-hand people & her personal secretary for many, many years.


I have been reading a lot of stuff that suggests that she was very personally involved. It is horrid to read of this young man's resistance to the adults - which they were able to help him "overcome", good little fella as he was.

Edit - ach - Craven as usual is well ahead of me.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:36 am
Monger wrote:
I remember my best friend as a kid taking part in organized protests in the streets, decrying the "lies" that had come out in a Japanese tabloid & was starting to make the major papers. She was instructed by her mother (a regional leader) to tell anyone who would listen that her & her friends were exceptionally well taken care of. She was maybe 13 & had been regularly raped. I was 7 & I was lucky.

I helped to burn books & internal literature, too, but copies of some of the worst material ("davidito" isn't) is out there if anyone in law enforcement cared enough to pursue it even a little. Then again, like Craven said, the literature alone has never been enough for anything.

I know several members who've changed their legal names...in the case I'm thinking of it was to be allowed back into a country after being blacklisted for reentry.


Australia now has laws permitting us to prosecute for sexual abuse of children committed overseas (because of the charming habit of some of our citizens of going on child sex tours in Thailand, and, no doubt, other places - and other such lovely stuff.)

If the will existed - and mebbe Interpol could collate stuff - I see little reason why some of these people could not be prosecuted - extradition from one country for crimes committed in another country happens all the time. I presume the deterrents are expense, time (most prosecution agencies are perennially overburdened), the difficulties of actually getting convictions (here, Public Prosecutions normally only proceeds with cases it thinks it has a reasonable chance of winning - though with adult survivors of child abuse I have seen them go out on a limb) and the damned reality that, generally, people's respect for kids' rights is in their mouths.

I imagine that, also, many of the countries in which the oiffences were committed may not have the sophisticated judicial system in relation to such matters as Oz and the US and the UK and canada and Europe have?

Another reason to be cautious would see tto be The Family's skill in making itself look like a persecuted religion.

I hafta say, too - that the emotional toll taken on abused folk by the horrible court process is immense. Personally, I grit my teeth and worry like hell whenever a client goes to court - (I almost can't bear to see it happen) - knowing that they will be viciously re-traumatised in a way that I am unable really to prepare them for, no matter how hard I try - and that they are unlikely to gain a conviction - something that nobody seems able really to believe - people expect justice, it seems.

But look - we had a couple of 90 year old concentration camp killers tried here a few years ago. If the system is pushed hard enough, it gives. They were found not guilty, though.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 10:13 am
This is such a lightweight matter in comparison but...I missed the Golden Globe Awards last night!! Even after checking to make sure that none of the award shows were on, somehow I must have overlooked it in the cable program menu so instead, I sat here watching some lame film that I don't even remember. Grrrr....
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makemeshiver33
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 01:48 pm
Going to work this morning and finding my kicthen a total wreck......my youngest son could've cleaned it up better than my weekend help. And he's 6.......

Makes for a bad Monday!!!
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Jan, 2005 09:25 pm
It's getting damn cold again...snow predicted 4 out of the next 5 days....and last week was such great weather. Bugger.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Jan, 2005 09:39 pm
Finally having to face decisions re work and living here. Clenching my paws.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Jan, 2005 09:44 pm
Another tragic loss...
This happened shortly before Ricky lost it. Abe was a close friend of mine & a great guy..everyone loved him...I used to go out with him to drink screwdrivers & watch flicks (he loved the Alien series Smile) when I was maybe 13 or 14 & he was a few years older. He leaves behind a wife & 2 young kids. I remember his sister China as an amazing dancer...I last saw her, unexpectedly, at a rave 2 years ago on new years eve night. Everyone in Japan mentioned in the article I've known personally...I hope they're coping alright.
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