Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@firefly,

DAVID wrote:

I 'd like to see Alan Dershowitz, Esq. get in on the defense herein,
if he is admitted to practice in Florida.

firefly wrote:

Although Dershowitz doesn't agree with the second degree murder charge,
he has said that a manslaughter charge against Zimmerman might be appropriate.

Its an easier standard of proof.
I 'd be very surprized if he actually said that Zimmy was guilty of manslaughter.

firefly wrote:

I don't think he'd want any part of this case.

He has been VOCAL in declaring his views.
That shows SOME degree of interest.

firefly wrote:

Zimmerman's first lawyers dumped him because they didn't like the way he was behaving, and he's put his current attorney in a difficult position because of his lies about his assets. Defense attorneys really aren't overjoyed to have clients who are loose cannons, and who mislead them, and cause them to mislead a judge.

That is very true.
Another example of this was Bernie Goetz in NY; a little nuts n a lot unpredictable; not fun.

firefly wrote:

I'm still not in the mood to discuss those videos, David. [Presumably, u have not even SEEN them yet; right????]

It does not lie within my ability
to extract the described performance from u,
but I CAN point out the discrepancy between your implied promise
and your actual conduct.

I can ESPECIALLY do it,
when u attribute lack of credibility to someone else.

firefly wrote:

Give it a rest.

I will do so when u have fulfilled the obligation that u VOLUNTARILY assumed, sua sponte.
In the meantime, I will continue to point out the difference
between what u SAY and what u DO
(unless u openly admit that u r not a truthful person).

David

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Oh by the way if I started a fight Firefly the other person would have a few marks on them even if I was not winning the fight.

The fact there was no sign that Zimmerman hit or in any other manner harm poor Trayvon before firing the one shot that ended the beating say it all as who assaulted who that night.

No, Zimmerman could have provoked or started the fight simply by grabbing Martin's arm, or his clothing, to try to detain him. That would have given Martin legal justification to respond in self defense.
And the lack of marks on Martin's body suggest that Zimmerman did not use equal force at all--he used only deadly force, and not as a last resort.

And the judge who will decide how credible Zimmerman's account is now knows he is dealing with a liar--a man who has already lied to him.

You're too dumb to realize how much Zimmerman just weakened his own defense by undermining his own credibility. I'm sure his lawyer is well aware of that.

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/V/4/George-Zimmerman-Stand-Grou.jpg

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@firefly,

Yes indeed and if he had harm poor poor Trayvon then you would had taken the position that is proof that he assaulted the poor "kid"'.

As far as touching someone or even grabbing their arm allowing a full out assault on that person I question if the criminal justice would agree with you.

Thinking back once more I once had have my arm grabbed by a security guard that did not see my ID at a IEEE convention and it never enter my mind that gave me a license to attack him nor if I had done so I question if the criminal justice system of New York would had agree with your position that a grabbing of an arm allowed such an attack.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Thinking back once more I once had have my arm grabbed by a security guard that did not see my ID at a IEEE convention

He wasn't at a convention, he was walking along the street.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Thinking back once more I once had have my arm grabbed by a security guard that did not see my ID at a IEEE convention and it never enter my mind that gave me a license to attack him...

Maybe that's because, as a paid security guard, he had a right to grab you in that situation if he couldn't see your ID.

Zimmerman had no legal authority to grab, or try to detain, or even to question, Trayvon Martin in any way. Trayvon Martin had a perfect right to be where he was--and to be free from harassment by George Zimmerman.

Meanwhile, Zimmerman just significantly weakened his own credibility, and his defense, by lying to the judge about his assets. No matter how much you try to distract from that fact, it still stands.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Oh a private security guard have special rights to grab arms?

Footnote the security person was not in uniform but a suit so I did not know at once who the hell he happen to have been, so once more did I have a right to attack him before he ID himself as security Firefly for the act of grabbing my arm?

In any case there is zero indication that he grab poor Trayvon arm or started anything at all with Trayvon other then legally following him to keep an eye on him until the police show up.

Once more all the evidence point in only one direction that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman not the other way around.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

In any case there is zero indication that he grab poor Trayvon arm or started anything at all with Trayvon other then legally following him to keep an eye on him until the police show up.

Then why could Trayvon be heard saying to Zimmerman,"get off me, get off me," by the friend who was talking to him on the phone, just before the shooting occurred?

You're just disregarding the evidence that doesn't fit your version of events.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Yes and eye witnesses saw the black gentleman on top of Zimmerman not the other way around and when the police play the scream for help Trayvon own father at first stated it was not his son.

As far as disregarding evidence that does not fit your theory you are the spin queen of spin queens.

Yes Trayvon was yelling get off me as he pound Zimmerman head into the sidewalk and once more not a damn mark of Trayvon but for the bullet hole.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Nothing you are saying is inconsistent with Zimmerman having provoked and instigated the confrontation and Martin responding in self defense.

Let's not forget that Zimmerman is the one with a documented history of problems with aggressive impulses.

And Zimmerman just damaged his own credibiity by trying to mislead the judge about his financial assests in order to get a lower bail. He's not only a liar, he arrogantly thought that if he and his wife spoke in code about their money that no one would catch on to what they were saying. He thinks he can outwit prosecutors and judges? That judge was pretty angry about being deceived.

Zimmerman just dug himself into a much deeper hole than he was in before. His defense rests on his credibility--and he just helped to blow any image he might have had for being honest.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

Let's not forget that Zimmerman is the one with a documented history of problems with aggressive impulses.

He has never been convicted....if women's sexual behavior history is not able to be pursued in court when they and the state allege rape why should zimmermans history of aggressive impulse control be allowed into court here?

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

why should zimmermans history of aggressive impulse control be allowed into court here?

It has nothing to do with criminal convictions--his aggressive actions are still a matter of public record--and he was court-ordered to take anger management classes in the past. At the time of the shooting, he was prescribed psychiatric medication for ADD/hyperactivity/impulse control.

He is the defendant and he is charged with a crime of violence. His past patterns of behavior are relevant.

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Footnote concerning another example of misinformation given by Firefly that the passport that was replaced happen after the shooting when according to his lawyer statement the first passport was lost/misplaced years before and replaced also years before with another one.

When moving the household to go into hiding the first passport was found so the nonsense that Zimmerman had a passport replaced after the shooting is just that nonsense.

I know that no one should grant any credit to any claims by Firefly from past history and I feel a little shame over doing so in this case.

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@firefly,

Quote:

At the time of the shooting, he was prescribed psychiatric medication for ADD/hyperactivity/impulse control.

Is it your assertion that the state has the right to pry into our medical records when ever it charges us with a crime? A huge portion of the population runs around every day drugged up on "psychiatric medication", I see no reason to conclude that those who are are more likely to be guilty of the crimes the state charges them with, or to allow the state to make the claim. This seems like prejudice and discrimination to me.

Quote:

He is the defendant and he is charged with a crime of violence. His past patterns of behavior are relevant

No more so than are those of the alleged victim.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Footnote concerning another example of misinformation given by Firefly that the passport that was replaced happen after the shooting when according to his lawyer statement the first passport was lost/misplaced years before and replaced also years before with another one.

When moving the household to go into hiding the first passport was found so the nonsense that Zimmerman had a passport replaced after the shooting is just that nonsense.

I know that no one should grant any credit to any claims by Firefly from past history and I feel a little shame over doing so in this case.

I notice you provided no link to that information. As is the case with most of what you have posted about this case, your information is incorrect, and what I posted was accurate.

Quote:

Along with conversations about their finances, prosecutors also told the Judge that Zimmerman was hiding a second passport from authorities that he acquired shortly after the Martin shooting and had stored in a safety deposit box.

But after his bond he did turn the second passport into his attorney who quickly notified the court. The judge agreed with his attorney, that the second passport, which was never used, was not being hid maliciously.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-ordered-back-jail/story?id=16481046

He acquired the second passport after the shooting--just as I said.

You are too stupid to try to be patronizing or sarcastic about me. It just makes you look like more of a fool.

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If the state turns out to not even have a solid enough case to get to trial, if Alan dershowitz and others are right that this case should be tossed, then the state by forcing Zimmerman back into jail will end up looking even more abusive than they were going to be already. We shall see if Florida ends up regretting this move.

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@firefly,

Quote:

He acquired the second passport after the shooting--just as I said.

right....* sarcasm*

Quote:

In court documents, State Attorney Angela B. Corey also said that Zimmerman had two passports, and the passport that he surrendered to the court at the April hearing was one that Zimmerman had reported stolen on March 8, 2004. That passport was valid until May 2012, Corey said.

Zimmerman was issued a second passport on March 26, 2004, and that one is valid until 2014, she said

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-01/justice/justice_florida-teen-shooting_1_second-passport-judge-revokes-credit-union?_s=PM:JUSTICE

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Oh, BillRM, you do go on. If one goes back over the pages of this thread, the most consistent reporter of fact is, without doubt, Firefly.
The reporting on the passport(s) was a muddled as the story told by Zimmerman and his attorney. I heard three different versions over three days from the same news outlet, MSNBC, including when the second passport had been applied for and when the original passport had been found.

This is a person, Zimmerman, who seems to know enough to start a fund raising page and is able to talk in code about the amounts in it to his wife, but, in your opinion, still is unquestionably innocent. His own attorney, speaking today, said that Zimmerman's credibility is "tarnished" and he has serious doubts that there will be another bail hearing anytime soon.

Joe(Zimmerman is going to serve time for his actions)Nation

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye do you not love that Firefly keep trying to sell misinformation even when call on it?

Poor woman never knowing when to cut her losses it would seems.

Of course she is aided by all the misinformations that the new media had been putting out on this case.

I still love that at least half the news stories are still showing a picture of poor Trayvon as a 14 years old or so.

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@Joe Nation,

Quote:

His own attorney, speaking today, said that Zimmerman's credibility is "tarnished" and he has serious doubts that there will be another bail hearing anytime soon.

Until and unless the state comes up with some evidence against Zimmerman this will not matter. All George needs to do is say that he was scared after a massive show of hate towards him in the press and other places, and the jury will understand and likely give him a free pass for any errors that took place re the passport or the funds. Once his lawyer tells the jury that HE is the one who neglected to turn the second passport in, and that George has no access to the funds as they are in a trust set up by him, the reason George is in jail now will be a non-issue re guilt in the alleged crime. The state will come off looking bad however.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye I think that the state is not a bit concern about Zimmerman being a flight risk but instead hope to keep him in jail long enough that he might be willing to take a plea deal inspite of the state weak case or at least take away the fundings to mount a defense by tying it up in extra bond requirements.

1 Reply

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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