45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 05:28 am
@firefly,
According to all believable reports I've seen, Zimmerman was walking back towards his vehicle as per police instructions when the kid came up to him, sucker-punched him and knocked him down, and the kid could have walked away at that point and nothing else would have happened; but the kid pounced on Martin and was trying to literally beat him to death by slamming his head against pavement causing the wounds which we've seen in pictures in the news. At that point, Zimmerman was basically out of ideas for saving the situation without anybody being seriously hurt or killed, and pulled the pistol and shot the kid.

I have not seen anything to suggest any other version of the story and there is absolutely nothing in that to suggest that Zimmerman should have been arrested or charged with anything. The only reason I've seen so far for anybody to have arrested Zimmerman has been the threat of billions of New Black Panther and Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson followers rioting in Flori-duh cities. In most other countries, the rulers would view that (the idea of Sharpton et. al. rioting) as what the machinegun was invented for, and Zimmerman would still not be charged.

OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 05:45 am

The allegation that Mr. T (Trayvon) was unarmed was false.

Mr. T was using the cement sidewalk as a weapon (probably unregistered)
upon which to slam the hapless Zimmy 's innocent head,
beating him to death, against his will.


Beating ARMED CITIZENS to death can bring bad luck.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 05:59 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I still suspect there may have been more to the thing than the kid being pissed over the idea of a neighborhood-watch volunteer checking him out. Other possibilities could include T thinking Z was a rival gang member, T thinking Z was scoping a house which HE was scoping (i.e. thinking Z was another burglar impinging his territory), T thinking Z was somebody involved in some sort of a bad drug deal, or some other similar sort of mistaken identity...
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 06:10 am
@gungasnake,
Yeah; anything is possible.

He just decided to GET PHYSICAL.
That proved to be unwise, unhealthy.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 06:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Do u have a link in proof of this?
I believe that it is true, from what I 've heard.
Accordingly, the point is made that
the right of self defense from predatory violence
is proportionally MORE IMPORTANT to the blacks than to the whites


I did not go to the CDC and dig the details out directly but anyone are free to do so at cdc.gov


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/29/AR2008122900004.html

» Follow Metro On: » This Story:Read +| Comments
More Young Blacks in U.S. Involved in Homicides
By Robert E. Pierre
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Homicide rates across the country have fallen so much over the past decade that a disturbing trend is often unnoticed: a precipitous rise in homicides involving young black men, both as perpetrators and victims.

The percentage of black males ages 14 to 17 who killed someone rose by more than a third between 2000 and 2007, according to a report released yesterday by two researchers at Northeastern University in Boston.

The researchers did not break out statistics for the District, but juvenile arrests in homicides have risen from 10 last year to 16 this year.


The change is striking in comparison with the number of homicides, which has stayed largely flat in the District, increasing less than 3 percent, from 180 last year to 185 so far this year.

Northeastern criminologist James Alan Fox, the study's co-author, said that lawmakers claimed victory in the fight against crime too soon and enacted budget cuts, trimming federal dollars for local police and programs for disadvantaged youths in favor of domestic anti-terrorism measures, particularly after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"We got a little too complacent," Fox said in a phone interview. "This is a disturbing trend. Many more people are murdered in street violence every year than were killed in 9/11."

Fox and co-author Marc L. Swatt, an assistant criminal justice professor at Northeastern, examined homicide data from 2002 to 2007 submitted by law enforcement agencies across the country for the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports. Last year, according to the study, homicides were committed by 1,142 black juveniles ages 14 to 17. That was a 34 percent increase from 851 in 2000. In contrast, white male juveniles committed 547 homicides last year, a 1.5 percent increase from 539 in 2000.

There was also a significant increase in the number of black youths in the same age group who were shot to death: 426 last year, up from 303 in 2000. Fox said that 964 youths in the same demographic committed fatal shootings in 2007, up from 698 in 2000.

The study notes homicide levels are much lower than the high levels during the turf wars over crack dealing in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It blames the current trend partly on the "increasing numbers of wayward and poorly-supervised youngsters with guns in their hands and gangs in their plans."

Fox said the Obama administration should restore funding for police, build up inferior schools and refocus efforts to keep guns away from children. "We've had a bailout for Wall Street," Fox said. "Maybe we need a bailout for at-risk youth."

It's an argument often leveled locally by youth advocates, who contend that lawmakers reflexively, and wrongly, push for tougher enforcement and criticize hip-hop culture.

"We don't need any more laws or any more people locked up," said Barry Krisberg, president of the National Council on Crime and Delinquency.

"I don't think the system has gotten more lenient. We have lost a community-based approach to prevention. Generally, what we need is more adults who might listen and figure out upfront the kids

===============================
http://www.news4jax.com/news/Homicide-Top-Killer-Of-Young-Black-Males/-/475880/2004806/-/mj4spmz/-/index.html

Homicide Top Killer Of Young Black Males
National Study Says Black Males Between 12, 19 Years Old At Risk
Published On: Oct 14 2011 02:30:43 PM EDT Updated On: May 06 2010 As sad as it is to say, 17-year-old Fredrick McRay is more likely to die by homicide rather than by any other cause of death, according to a national study.

Car accidents are the No. 1 killer of teens in the U.S., except for black male teens. According to the Centers for Disease Control, the leading cause of death among young black men is homicide.

Researchers looked at the homicide rate for every 100,000 people. Among young black men, there are 39.2 homicides. For young hispanic men, there are 17.1 homicides, and for young white males, the homicide rate is just 2.6.The study found that black males ages 12 to 19 are at risk on their job, in their schools and on the streets.

"It's nonsense. We should be working with this community rather than killing each other," McRay said.

"Unfortunately, the things that are tied to that are violence and crime, because they're dealing drugs or in some sort of gangs," one local resident said.

Community activists said young black men are often mesmerized by the money and the fame they see on TV, looking for the next quick-riches scheme.

Mental health experts said some black men trying to be so tough and so hard are often hurting deep inside, lacking the core basics they need to succeed.

"The financial literacy aspect and the educational component of understanding you don't have to do the fast money process," said Marie Heath, of Edward Waters College. "There are ways coordinated with the community whereby we can assist with jobs and financial education."

Any teen will tell you guns are easy to get on the streets. The violence penetrates nearly every Jacksonville neighborhood.

If you think your teen is at all at risk, there are a number of resources to set them straight.

There are a dozen outreach resources available in Jacksonville for teens or their families:


ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 07:51 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
billions of New Black Panther and Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson followers rioting in Flori-duh cities.


wow

where will these billions of followers be travelling from? who is booking the travel? awesome business opportunity
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:06 am
@BillRM,

DAVID wrote:
Do u have a link in proof of this?
I believe that it is true, from what I 've heard.
Accordingly, the point is made that
the right of self defense from predatory violence
is proportionally MORE IMPORTANT to the blacks than to the whites
BillRM wrote:
I did not go to the CDC and dig the details out directly but anyone are free to do so at cdc.gov


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/29/AR2008122900004.html

» Follow Metro On: » This Story:Read +| Comments
More Young Blacks in U.S. Involved in Homicides
By Robert E. Pierre
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Homicide rates across the country have fallen so much over the past decade that a disturbing trend is often unnoticed: a precipitous rise in homicides involving young black men, both as perpetrators and victims.

The percentage of black males ages 14 to 17 who killed someone rose by more than a third between 2000 and 2007, according to a report released yesterday by two researchers at Northeastern University in Boston.

The researchers did not break out statistics for the District, but juvenile arrests in homicides have risen from 10 last year to 16 this year.


The change is striking in comparison with the number of homicides, which has stayed largely flat in the District, increasing less than 3 percent, from 180 last year to 185 so far this year.

Northeastern criminologist James Alan Fox, the study's co-author, said that lawmakers claimed victory in the fight against crime too soon and enacted budget cuts, trimming federal dollars for local police and programs for disadvantaged youths in favor of domestic anti-terrorism measures, particularly after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"We got a little too complacent," Fox said in a phone interview. "This is a disturbing trend. Many more people are murdered in street violence every year than were killed in 9/11."

Fox and co-author Marc L. Swatt, an assistant criminal justice professor at Northeastern, examined homicide data from 2002 to 2007 submitted by law enforcement agencies across the country for the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports. Last year, according to the study, homicides were committed by 1,142 black juveniles ages 14 to 17. That was a 34 percent increase from 851 in 2000. In contrast, white male juveniles committed 547 homicides last year, a 1.5 percent increase from 539 in 2000.

There was also a significant increase in the number of black youths in the same age group who were shot to death: 426 last year, up from 303 in 2000. Fox said that 964 youths in the same demographic committed fatal shootings in 2007, up from 698 in 2000.

The study notes homicide levels are much lower than the high levels during the turf wars over crack dealing in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It blames the current trend partly on the "increasing numbers of wayward and poorly-supervised youngsters with guns in their hands and gangs in their plans."

Fox said the Obama administration should restore funding for police, build up inferior schools and refocus efforts to keep guns away from children. "We've had a bailout for Wall Street," Fox said. "Maybe we need a bailout for at-risk youth."

It's an argument often leveled locally by youth advocates, who contend that lawmakers reflexively, and wrongly, push for tougher enforcement and criticize hip-hop culture.

"We don't need any more laws or any more people locked up," said Barry Krisberg, president of the National Council on Crime and Delinquency.

"I don't think the system has gotten more lenient. We have lost a community-based approach to prevention. Generally, what we need is more adults who might listen and figure out upfront the kids

===============================
http://www.news4jax.com/news/Homicide-Top-Killer-Of-Young-Black-Males/-/475880/2004806/-/mj4spmz/-/index.html

Homicide Top Killer Of Young Black Males
National Study Says Black Males Between 12, 19 Years Old At Risk
Published On: Oct 14 2011 02:30:43 PM EDT Updated On: May 06 2010 As sad as it is to say, 17-year-old Fredrick McRay is more likely to die by homicide rather than by any other cause of death, according to a national study.

Car accidents are the No. 1 killer of teens in the U.S., except for black male teens. According to the Centers for Disease Control, the leading cause of death among young black men is homicide.

Researchers looked at the homicide rate for every 100,000 people. Among young black men, there are 39.2 homicides. For young hispanic men, there are 17.1 homicides, and for young white males, the homicide rate is just 2.6.The study found that black males ages 12 to 19 are at risk on their job, in their schools and on the streets.

"It's nonsense. We should be working with this community rather than killing each other," McRay said.

"Unfortunately, the things that are tied to that are violence and crime, because they're dealing drugs or in some sort of gangs," one local resident said.

Community activists said young black men are often mesmerized by the money and the fame they see on TV, looking for the next quick-riches scheme.

Mental health experts said some black men trying to be so tough and so hard are often hurting deep inside, lacking the core basics they need to succeed.

"The financial literacy aspect and the educational component of understanding you don't have to do the fast money process," said Marie Heath, of Edward Waters College. "There are ways coordinated with the community whereby we can assist with jobs and financial education."

Any teen will tell you guns are easy to get on the streets. The violence penetrates nearly every Jacksonville neighborhood.

If you think your teen is at all at risk, there are a number of resources to set them straight.

There are a dozen outreach resources available in Jacksonville for teens or their families:



U r a good researcher, Bill !





David
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:18 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Nietzsche's describing Socrates as an asshole was BEFORE he went insane....


The experts do not know when he went insane. They only know when he was finally put away!

Besides, I understand that actually Nietzsche merely said that Socrates had an asshole.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:25 am
@ehBeth,
I think Gunga may have been indulging hyperbole . . . if he's able . . .
FreeDuck
 
  5  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:33 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

According to all believable reports I've seen, Zimmerman was walking back towards his vehicle as per police instructions when the kid came up to him, sucker-punched him and knocked him down, and the kid could have walked away at that point and nothing else would have happened; but the kid pounced on Martin and was trying to literally beat him to death by slamming his head against pavement causing the wounds which we've seen in pictures in the news. At that point, Zimmerman was basically out of ideas for saving the situation without anybody being seriously hurt or killed, and pulled the pistol and shot the kid.


That's actually the least believable report I've seen. It matches Zimmerman's very first version of events, which was modified later when it was learned that Trayvon was on the phone right up until the confrontation and that the girl heard a verbal exchange between the two. That doesn't jibe with being attacked from behind. Even now Zimmerman is not claiming he was attacked from behind anymore. Trayvon had already tried to run away and thought he had lost him. It seems unlikely that he would have then turned around and looked for Zimmerman in order to initiate a confrontation that he had just tried to avoid. It stretches the imagination that he would have tried to kill Zimmerman with his bare hands, and it seems much more likely that he was trying to disable him enough to get home without him finding out where he lived.

With not much new evidence turning up (pictures of a bloody head only verify what we already knew -- that they got in a fight) I'm wondering when your view of what happened changed to what it is now from this:
gungasnake wrote:

The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.

For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:48 am
@Setanta,
Nah. It's just that Gunga permanently inhabits a reality of his own creation.

Imagine Alice's looking glass and mix in a liberal (heh!) dose of LSD....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:52 am
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you,
By the livin' Gawd that made you,
You're a weirder man than I am, Gunga Dim!
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 08:52 am
@ehBeth,

gungasnake wrote:
billions of New Black Panther and Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson followers rioting in Flori-duh cities.
ehBeth wrote:
wow

where will these billions of followers be travelling from?
who is booking the travel? awesome business opportunity
It is probably best if you do not comment
on any other person's travel plans, Beth.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:29 am
@OmSigDAVID,
The sad part is if Trayvon had been killed by some black gangbanger as thousands of others young black men are every year had done no one would give a **** outside of his family.

No tee shirts and no mass high schools protects and no Al Sharpton and no debates on this website hell no trademarking of his name and saying by his mother for that matter.

It does say something about our society and not a good thing for sure.

OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:32 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
The sad part is if Trayvon had been killed by some black gangbanger
as thousands of others young black men are every year had done
no one would give a **** outside of his family.

No tee shirts and no mass high schools protects and no Al Sharpton
and no debates on this website hell no trademarking of his name
and saying by his mother for that matter.

It does say something about our society and not a good thing for sure.
Well, the debates on this website r fun,
but also no putting poor Zimmy thru hell, in the meantime.

I hope that he will make enuf off of this to justify his inconveniences.





David
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:35 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Well, of course, in bizarro-land one rewards a killer. What a nice sentiment!
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:35 am
@BillRM,
If the only difference was that Zimmerman was a black gangbanger, I'd have been calling for his arrest and an investigation to the exact same degree.

The problem was that his story was accepted by the police without question and he was released and that would have been that if not for the outcry; not that he is white/ Hispanic.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:36 am
@BillRM,
Regarding the SADNESS, Bill,
all Mr. T had to do was remain peaceful.

He 'd still be intact, if he had not abused that sidewalk.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:38 am
@Ragman,
We r all the safer for it, Ragman,
like when we nuked the Japs.





David
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2012 09:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Huh? What Are you talking about?
0 Replies
 
 

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