9
   

there is a fundamental reality

 
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 09:41 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
So ? What is fundamentally "material" on photons protons and electrons other then laws of nature say so ?


they exist and have real properties

Quote:
What results in that which you call "materiality" is the the process of interaction between these particles on itself a "system" of functions, or in a loose sense a "program" (without a programmer) that establishes such and such possible "reactive" outcomes...


what ever they are able to do
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 09:43 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
What was ignored in my last post to you, because clearly you did n´t understood a line of it, is precisely what I have been trying to explain to a bunch of no imagination suckers previously in which interaction is not consciousness but rather that consciousness is the bi product of a specific complex form of mathematical interaction, same with matter...and that speaking in phenomenal "intra time" non ontological manner such that it becomes accessible to "normal" understanding...if I were to speak on ontological terms there is no interaction the thing is done and does not move past present and future are there and make a loop...no outside no nothingness out of it...no anything else !
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 09:57 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
Precisely what I have been trying to explain to a bunch of no imagination suckers above is that interaction is not consciousness but rather that consciousness is the bi product of a specific complex form of mathematical interaction...


sure I understand what you mean to a certain extent

but what I'm trying to get across to you is that consciousness is in the first place because of , before the complex mathematical interaction , has a physical basis


Quote:
and that speaking in phenomenal "intra time" non ontological manner such that it becomes accessible to "normal" understanding...if I were to speak on ontological terms there is no interaction the thing is done and does not move pass present and future are there and make a loop...no outside no nothingness out of it...no anything else !


explain " intra time "
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:05 pm
@north,
Do the following exercise:
Imagine you have in your hand a film with all those sequenced photos...the film is there is done and yet when you peak up the projector it all comes "alive"...only then things relate and pictures come together with meaning, and not just because we can see it (meaning) or "build" it, but because we and the film we all are meant to inter relate in a meaningful functional way ! Now from there imagine that the entire Universe Multiverse or what else you want to call it is a 4 dimensional or whatever more dimensional you wish standing film...everything is done and complete and true ! There is nothing else...motion is an illusion a resulting effect of such mathematical equations, the same is valid for time and for all the other dimensions of space aside the only one needed for the equations...no background...
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:14 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
Do the following exercise: Imagine you have in your hand a film with all those sequenced photos...the film is there is done and yet when you peak up the projector it all comes "alive"...only then things relate and pictures come together with meaning, and not just because we can see it (meaning) or "build" it, but because we and the film we all are meant to inter relate in a meaningful functional way ! Now from there imagine that the entire Universe Multiverse or what else you want to call it is a 4 dimensional or whatever more dimensional you wish standing film...everything is done and complete and true ! There is nothing else...motion is an illusion a resulting effect of such mathematical equations, the same is valid for time and for all the other dimensions of space aside the only one needed for the equations...no background...


so are you saying that reality is actually two dimensions and is reflected to us as three dimensions ?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:17 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
...now it would be a very fair question to ask me why I am suspicious of movement at all, why don´t I believe in motion ?
And I can succinctly explain it by tracing it back to when I was twelve and learn something a bit more substantial on the Big Bang...my question was if space expands expands in what ? it cannot expand in nothingness since nothingness is not even space and thus wont allow any sort of movement...if it is in Multiverse the problem just goes one level up...either multiverse does n´t move or if it does its boundary's must be flexible...but how come ? flexible in what again ? nothingness constrains movement...from there I started to see what Truth was all about and why it is perfect and indeed static...well enough with it I think you get the picture hopefully...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:19 pm
@north,
if we go on Occam's razor principle and take out what is redundant probably is just one dimension...
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:23 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
...now it would be a very fair question to ask me why I am suspicious of movement at all, why don´t I believe in motion ? And I can succinctly explain it by tracing it back to when I was twelve and learn something a bit more substantial on the Big Bang...my question was if space expands expands in what ? it cannot expand in nothingness since nothingness is not even space and thus wont allow any sort of movement...if it is in Multiverse the problem just goes one level up...either multiverse does n´t move or if it does its boundary's must be flexible...but how come ? flexible in what again ? nothingness constrains movement...from there I started to see what Truth was all about and why it is perfect and indeed static...well enough with it I think you get the picture hopefully...


why would nothingness constrain movement though ?

( I don't agree with the big-bang theory by the way )
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:27 pm
@north,
think of it like this, nothingness is less then space less then time less then laws of nature nothingness is the place were nothing can occur or happen , no motion no matter no energy not even a possible future...a possible future would render nothingness in ontological abstract terms in a place of possibility a redundant obvious truth but it helps to picture it step by step...now none of these things can happen in such a "thing" (actually a non thing at all) so how come space expands ? That was how it all started for me...

...the problem of Being and Nothingness it is my only interest in Philosophy...all others are side affairs, specially moral questions...
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:31 pm
What a shame to see an interesting thread melt down.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:31 pm
What a shame to see an interesting thread melt down.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:34 pm
@JLNobody,
...the only thing melted down here is your brain J...long past due !
It is precisely this kind of apparently innocent lamb like style passive aggressive behaviour that brings up the sort of reaction I have to people like you...you are basically unproductive !
...your only purpose is to reproduce others thoughts read in books you could not possibly ever come to understand...you are less then a copy machine !
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:37 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
think of it like this, nothingness is less then space less then time less then laws of nature nothingness is the place were nothing can occur or happen , no motion no matter no energy not even a possible future...a possible future would render nothingness in ontological abstract terms in a place of possibility a redundant obvious truth but it helps to picture it step by step...now none of these things can happen in such a "thing" (actually a non thing at all) so how come space expands ? That was how it all started for me... ...the problem of Being and Nothingness it is my only interest in Philosophy...all others are side affairs, specially moral questions...


this is my problem with the big-bang theory , funamentally

if energy and matter were , or came to a single point , the boom , this all exploded

why are we finding now that the Universe is not only expanding but accelerating further apart , but more importantly ,why would this have not happened before the BB

its a fundamental contradiction to the BB theory
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:42 pm
@north,
if it happened before or not no one knows, there might have occurred an infinite succession of big bangs for all that we know, its called big bounce theory and its old already...I think what you are asking is why did it started when it started,and assuming you are also intrigued towards where...acceleration is nowadays explained with dark energy and dark matter as the agents responsible for the galaxy's being pulled apart in spite the force of gravity who pushes them together...
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:50 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
if it happened before or not no one knows, there might have occurred an infinite succession of big bangs for all that we know, its called big bounce theory and its old already...I think what you are asking is why did it started when it started,and assuming you are also intrigued towards where...acceleration is nowadays explained with dark energy and dark matter as the agents responsible for the galaxy's being pulled apart in spite the force of gravity who pushes them together...


yes

it makes no sense to tell us that the Universe started from BB and then tell us that the Universe is accelerating !

and the other spectualtion now is that eventually this dark energy could eventually rip , the big-rip , could tear all matter apart , from us to galaxies etc !

BB just makes less and less sense all the time
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:52 pm
@JLNobody,
I would actually appreciate you Fresco and Cyracuz to put me definitely on ignore to prevent any further "noise" of going on...I will try and do the same as reading your posts really wrecks my nerves...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:56 pm
@north,
I don´t think Big bang is bluntly wrong entirely I think it just tells half of the story... besides its explaining says nothing on the nature of time and how it behaves on a deep level scale...its a phenomenological approach and I am not at all satisfied with that for lunch...
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:03 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
I don´t think Big bang is bluntly wrong entirely I think it just tells half of the story... besides its explaining says nothing on the nature of time and how it behaves on a deep level scale...its a phenomenological approach and I am not at all satisfied with that for lunch...


there is just to much ad-hoc additions to the theory for my liking though
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:12 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Sounds good to me, the most reasonable thing you've said so far. BTW, I've been ignoring you for a long time now, just can't bear to read your interminable and awkward tirades.
The End
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:20 pm
@JLNobody,
If you have indeed been ignoring me how come simultaneously you have read my tirades ? You make a name for contradictions in one single sentence the usual...you could grab your gang and well go **** and contaminate other peoples minds say in a pseudo poetry or literature forum since own your account philosophy is dead ! If you were a teacher of philosophy you have seriously harmed your students...shame on you, you are nothing but a poor fake for a thinker !
The end (hopefully)
 

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