5
   

Nothing is created

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 02:42 pm
@JLNobody,
JL...you have asked me lots of questions here, and I've answered them.

Here are a couple for you, if I may:

Are gods possible...or are they impossible?

If "possible"...are there any gods?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 03:37 pm
@Rickoshay75,
I think you'll enjoy the book, "The Meaning of Everything" by Simon Winchester.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Meaning-Everything-English-Dictionary/dp/0198607024
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
..you are right on the spot on your remark of course as the the absence of proof is not proof of absence...it is a very old saying...I am certain I did n´t yet have had any proof that "God" or the Flying Spaghetti Monster exist so all that I can claim is that insofar for as long as I have observed it is very unlikely or improbable that such entity´s are real once I never observed neither, but ultimately the fact is that I don´t know...normally when confronted with this situations what is asked is for good reason to have not just any sort of guess, but what we usually call an informed guess...
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 11:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Hmmm, I can't adequately answer questions I can't take seriously. But I guess that IS my answer to such questions.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2012 02:31 am
@JLNobody,
Quote:
Hmmm, I can't adequately answer questions I can't take seriously. But I guess that IS my answer to such questions.


That is a response...not necessarily an answer. And if it is an answer, it is an evasive answer.

Perhaps the reason you consider the question, "Is the existence of gods an impossibility?" as something you "cannot take seriously"...is because you don't like the answer you come up with?

Same thing goes for the question: "If "possible"...are there any gods?"

I do appreciate the response though, JL. I think it made the point I wanted to make.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 07:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
I don't know why I bother, Frank, but if I tell you that you should BELIEVE that there is a three-headed dragon hiding from all humans would you just ignore this insanity or would you declare yourself a "believer" in the non-existence of three-headed dragons?


I would tell you I do not do "believing."


Yes, but do you believe what you just said?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2012 03:23 am
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:
Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
I don't know why I bother, Frank, but if I tell you that you should BELIEVE that there is a three-headed dragon hiding from all humans would you just ignore this insanity or would you declare yourself a "believer" in the non-existence of three-headed dragons?


I would tell you I do not do "believing."


Yes, but do you believe what you just said?


Nope.

This is something I know.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 03:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
I don't know why I bother, Frank, but if I tell you that you should BELIEVE that there is a three-headed dragon hiding from all humans would you just ignore this insanity or would you declare yourself a "believer" in the non-existence of three-headed dragons?


I would tell you I do not do "believing."


Belief is the most common and easiest way to gain pseudo knowledge, not only religion or atheism, everything we have ever learned.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 05:01 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:
Belief is the most common and easiest way to gain pseudo knowledge, not only religion or atheism, everything we have ever learned.


That sentence was an abortion.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 05:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I saw it as an oxymoron, since the definition of belief is
Quote:
be·lief/biˈlēf/
Noun:
An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 05:33 pm
@Rickoshay75,
The definition of 'create' seems rather slippery here.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 01:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

JL...you have asked me lots of questions here, and I've answered them.

Here are a couple for you, if I may:

Are gods possible...or are they impossible?

If "possible"...are there any gods?


It's less complicated to look at it this way -- only natural things exist, things that can be demonstrated, things with substance, things that don't have to be explained.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:14 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

The definition of 'create' seems rather slippery here.


True, and with no way to demonstrate or prove it -- create, make something out of nothing, will always be a slippery.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:23 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:
It's less complicated to look at it this way -- only natural things exist, things that can be demonstrated, things with substance, things that don't have to be explained.


It may be less complicated to look at it that way...but is it closer to the truth?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Truth is in the eye of the beholder.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Belief is the most common and easiest way to gain pseudo knowledge, not only religion or atheism, everything we have ever learned.


That sentence was an abortion.


You're right. I shouldn't have said psuedo
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 05:33 pm
@Rickoshay75,
vikorr wrote:
The definition of 'create' seems rather slippery here.


Rickoshay75 wrote:
True, and with no way to demonstrate or prove it -- create, make something out of nothing, will always be a slippery.


I think it goes without saying that we can't phsyically make something out of nothing. So surely that is not what this topic is about? Because there is nothing left to say other than 'we can't physically create something out of nothing'

'Create' in the common use, is almost never used in that way (really - only theologist use it in this sense, for the creation of the world).

Personally I wonder if our imagination is completely limited to things we have already experienced. The very vast plethora of Inventions would surely argue against this. So I would think that our imaginations certainly do contribute to 'creations'. Now it's possible to argue the vast majority of conceptualisation behind that any single creation has come from previous experience - but how does one possibly argue that previous experience is the sole contributor to the complete 'invention'? - considering anything invented has never before been experienced by the inventor? Surely there was an imaginative jump beyond what has been previously experienced by the inventor - in order to reach the final concept?

...anything made my intuitive leaps of the imagination into realms not previously experienced, is creation.

That said - I much prefer even more mundane uses for 'create'. There is a beauty in simplicity, and primitive earthiness...just as there is a beauty in complexity and lofty heights. The greater beauty is when the two combine with harmony.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 06:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
C.I to Frank Apisa: "Truth is in the eye of the beholder."

Does this mean, C.I., that you are an epistemological realist?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 06:39 pm
@JLNobody,
I'm not sure what that means, but what I am saying is that "truth" is a very subjective noun. It can be based on belief or facts and everything in between.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 08:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
We have an entire thread somewhere on epistemological relativism (vs. epistemological absolutism). I don't understand it either. Drunk
0 Replies
 
 

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