The politics of hoodie wearing

I count at least three. Hoodies over gimme-caps.

Really? They look like Parka's to me, which is traditional Wisconsin winter wear. My dad's family comes from Wisconsin, and I grew up in Rockford Il which is 20 minutes from the border....

Mr. Z asserts that decedent became violent with him. That is plausible.





David

What is far more plausible is that Zimmerman becane violent with Trayvon.
Let's examine the facts as we know them. Trayvon goes to a convenience store to get some candy and an iced tea for his brother. He's headed home to watch the game starting shortly on TV. He's talking to his girlfriend back in his hometown on his cellphone. He's walking around aimlessly as he talks (you ever seen anyone out in the open talking on a cellphone? They wander, they'll stare fixedly at a tree, or a fire hydrant, or a storefront for minutes at a time as they talk). He's called her a couple of times earlier that day because he misses her. He's getting creeped out because some guy in an SUV starts following him. If you're a black kid in America and you know you're not doing anything wrong, and some white guy in an SUV starts following you, given American history and given the South, fear for your life is not an unjustified reaction. His girlfriend shares his uneasiness and tells him to run away. The guy's in a car. Does he run down the street? Who moves faster, him or the car? No, he runs into the block's backyards (where the 911 callers said the killing took place). Now we know Zimmerman was on the prod ("assholes always run away", "******* coons" are his comments on his call to 911). We know he has a thing about black kids--he reported a group of 8 or 9 year olds who were just being kids and horsing around, and his comments are the phone are cenrtainly not neutral. Unfortunately, running away to avoid trouble triggers the attack response in predators, Zimmerman being one. Zimmerman, with his gun on his hip, follows Trayvon, violating the rules citizen's watches are supposed to abide by. He follows Trayvon into the backyards, cornering him. Trayvon had tried to avoid confrontation, but now all of a sudden here's this burly guy with a gun confronting him and blocking any escape route. Why are you following me, he asks, and then apparently loses his headset. Now had he been armed, he could legitimately have shot Zimmerman at that point because his fear for his life would clearly have been well-founded. But of course being a black kid caught in Florida justice he'd be on trial for murder now, and somehow they would decide Stand Your Ground wouldn't apply to him. Zimmerman outweighed him by 60 pounds, he had the gun. And he had the vigilante attitude. Someone was pleading for help, Trayvon's parents say it was Trayvon pleading . Forensic voice experts say it wasn't Zimmerman who was pleading (they have no samples of Trayvon's voice, so they can't say it was him, but those were the only two people involved). Those pleas for help were silenced forever by a gunshot. Who had the gun? Who tried to avoid confrontation? Who provoked it? Who took the law into his own hands?

My scenario has the advantage of fitting the known facts far more accurately than your hypotheticals, David. Bad law. No one should have died in something like this, but if anyone should have died, it was not Trayvon.

Well, that's the story you, Al Sharpton , Spike Lee, Jesse Jackson and the New Black Panthers want to tell, but there is at least one witness who told police that Martin was assualting Zimmerman, and despite the low efforts of certain media to falsify the 911 call, there is no evidence that Zimmerman is a bigot.

The story is about a deadly incident which neither you nor I understand fully at this time.

given the last couple of weeks that this young man had had I have no problem believing that he got to ENOUGH!" with the wrong guy.......

As you said on another thread:

This is where Trayvon's body was found. Backyards. Notice any street here? He ran from confrontation. Zimmerman clearly was stalking him (like a predator stalks its prey, David). Under Florida's Stand Your Ground law, Trayvon clearly could have killed Zimmerman in legitimate fear for his life. But he relied on this being a civil society and was unarmed. Would you have agreed with the outcome if it was Zimmerman that was dead now, David?

Damn, it wouldn't let me post the picture. I'll try again.


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/global/backgrounds/transparentBG.gif

It won't let me post the picture. Follow the link. It's a row of backyards, no fences, in the middle of a block. Trayvon tried to get away. He was gunned down.
You want to tell me what Zimmerman was doing far from his SUV in the backyards of that block?

Well, that's frustrating. Apparently the NYTimes won't let it be posted. It's in today's Times, a long double row of townhouses with back lawns on either side, and a sidewalk running down the middle. No street in sight. Zimmerman clearly would have had to have been stalking him to end up there.

Well, that's frustrating. Apparently the NYTimes won't let it be posted. It's in today's Times, a long double row of townhouses with back lawns on either side, and a sidewalk running down the middle. No street in sight. Zimmerman clearly would have had to have been stalking him to end up there.

Ya we know that he was trying to find the kid again after he lost him for the police, what we dont know is whether he made contact by accident or if he did it on purpose. Given that this kid likely had a chip on his shoulder after the shitty week he had had we should not be making assumptions.

The charter of the neighborhood watch says no weapons, no following. And speaking of chips on shoulders, Zimmerman says "the assholes always get away" and
"******* coons" on the 911 call. What was he doing in the middle of the block? Trayvon tries to get away from confrontation, not surprising since he wasn't doing anything wrong. Zimmerman pushed it, apparently made assumptions which were totally untrue, and killed an innocent kid.

The vigilante attitude that David is so enamored of killed innocent people in the Wild West, in the South under slavery and segregation, and it's killing innocent people now.

Zimmerman clearly has problems, but it appears that this black kid did as well. That one of them ended up dead does not answer the question of who was most wrong that day.

It looks like he ran toward confrontation, which resulted in his demise.
The victim, who was sufficiently prudent to be armed in self defense, prevailed.
Its better to be tried by 12 men
than carried by 6.



There is nothing rong with that; its perfectly moral & legal.
If u think that it is illegal to follow anyone in Florida, Jack,
then please cite to the applicable law.




That is just foolishness, Jack; that 's not the law.



How do U know what he relied on, Jack??
Did he TELL U that???????




That was a stupid thing to do.
It reduced his chances of survival.



What counts is WHO was the first one to initiate violence. He justifies self defense,
except if an arrest were being effected.





David

So WHAT??

Y is that significant??

R u worried that thay will throw Mr. Z out of the club???





David

This story starts to look like it involved a problem with the laws of physics i.e. the thing about two assholes not being able to occupy the same space at the same time. If the kid had just thrown the one punch and decked the guy and walked away, he'd be alive and I seriously doubt anybody would charge him with anything. By the same token, when you try to literally beat the life out of somebody and the somebody has a gun, you probably shouldn't be terribly shocked or surprised when you get shot.

LSOS wonders why people vote his **** down without bothering to read it....

There is no evidence that Z was doing anything rong,
just following decedent. There is nothing rong with that.
I used to pay private detectives who did that a lot; no problem.





David

really, beat the life out of him, he seems to be pretty mobile and non life beaten out of in the police video, i mean he got out of the car under his own power, he didn't seem to be limping or in need of support when he walked, he even looked pretty clean (if the paramedics cleaned him up, the police must have taken some pics of his injuries as evidence, they could help themselves immensely by releasing them)