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Defendant, Dharun Ravi, in Rutgers Spying Case Guilty of Hate Crimes

 
 
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 10:33 am
Quote:
Ex-Rutgers Student Convicted of Invasion of Privacy, Bias Intimidation
Friday, March 16, 2012
A former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life was convicted of all counts Friday in a case that exploded into the headlines when the victim of the snooping committed suicide by throwing himself off a bridge.

Dharun Ravi, 20, shook his head slightly after the guilty verdicts were read for all 15 counts, including bias intimidation, a hate crime, and invasion of privacy.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/nyregion/defendant-guilty-in-rutgers-case.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/new-jersey-news/2012/mar/16/deliberating-nj-webcam-spy-trial-enters-3rd-day/

Is anybody here following this trial? Do you think Dharun Ravi should get the maximum sentence allowed by law?
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 10:45 am
@tsarstepan,
I actually just read the long New Yorker article about this yesterday -- I saw it was in the headlines and went back and found it.

It's very interesting:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker

I dunno. Ravi was an asshole, that part I'm pretty sure about. I'm not sure if it really deserves that kind of punishment, though.

Especially, the bias intimidation. I don't think he was actually homophobic, or even that anti-Tyler really... it was more standard-issue assholery that went very, very bad.


Sturgis
 
  4  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 10:50 am
@tsarstepan,
I've been following from the start.

Since Ravi has yet to show any remorse for any of his actions, I feel he should receive the maximum sentence. If there's any way of having him serve on each of the counts consecutively rather than concurrently, I'd be all for it. As for his possible deportation, my mind is not as certain. We will know in May when he is finally sentenced just what the judge plans to do. For now, I take comfort knowing he was convicted. It won't bring Tyler Clementi back to life; but, maybe it will serve as a warning for at least a few people out there who think actions such as Ravi's are humorous.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 11:17 am
@Sturgis,
The story I read was he was convicted of invasion of privacy not of the hate crime charge and I am not sure of the others charges relating to tempering with evidence.

Seems all and all just to be a kid who did not have adult judgment yet.
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 11:20 am
@BillRM,
The story you read was incorrect:
Dharun Ravi, 20, shook his head slightly after the guilty verdicts were read for all 15 counts, including bias intimidation, a hate crime, and invasion of privacy.

Joe(Above...very good comment, Strugis)Nation
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 11:36 am
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
The story you read was incorrect:
Dharun Ravi, 20, shook his head slightly after the guilty verdicts were read for all 15 counts, including bias intimidation, a hate crime, and invasion of privacy.


I do not know as here is a break down where he was not found guilty of all 15 charges.

Lord you can not count of reporters to get anything straight.

Oh once more overcharging to try to force a plead deal 15 charges indeed.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/ravi_webcam_trial_verdict.html



COUNT 1
4th Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
4th Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Clementi's guest, M.B.: GUILTY
(Observed Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact without their consent on Sept. 19)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 2; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 2 and proceeds to count 3

COUNT 2
3rd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 4th Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 19)

• Invasion of Privacy with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 3
3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Activated webcam so other people could view Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact on Sept 19.)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 4; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 4 and proceeds to count 5

COUNT 4
2nd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 19)

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated, because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 5
4th Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
4th Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Tried to observe Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact without their consent on Sept. 21)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 6; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 6 and proceeds to count 7

COUNT 6
3rd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 4th Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 21)

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 7
3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Tried to show Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact to other people on Sept. 21)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 8; if Not Guilty, jury skips count 8 and proceeds to count 9

COUNT 8
2nd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 21)

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate M.B. because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause M.B. to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: ACQUITTED

• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 9
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Deleted tweets relevant to police investigation)

COUNT 10
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Wrote and posted a false tweet)

COUNT 11
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Destroyed evidence relevant to investigation)

COUNT 12
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Prevented a witness from providing testimony)

COUNT 13
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Lied to police)

COUNT 14
3rd Degree Witness Tampering: GUILTY
(Tried to influence what Molly Wei told police)

COUNT 15
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Deleted text messages sent to and received from witnesses)


BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 11:44 am
@BillRM,
Oh in this case it was reported that the jury was not allow to take notes or have the judge 90 minute charging instructions in written form.

Fifteen complexed charges and they have only their memory to go on.

Sound like an appeal issue.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 12:19 pm
I been trying to understand this charging sheet and now I think I am beginning to understand this system.

Each count can have a numbers of elements and if any one element it true then the man is guilty of that count.

So if three out of the four elements are not guilt but the fourth element is guilt then he is guilt of that charge.

So he could be found not guilt of a lot of the elements and still be found guilt of all the charges or that is beginning to be my understanding of the situation.

Is there is a lawyer on this thread to tell me if I had figure this out correctly or not?

Interesting system and the poor jury need to deal with it on memory alone.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 12:26 pm
I've been on four or five juries and never have been allowed to make notes during trial, nor have the Judge's instruction published. We were informed of both before the trial(s) began, so it was neither a surprise nor a burden.

You had to pay attention.
Thanks for the updates, Bill.

Joe(the jerk lost. Good)Nation
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 12:35 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
I dunno. Ravi was an asshole, that part I'm pretty sure about. I'm not sure if it really deserves that kind of punishment, though.

Especially, the bias intimidation. I don't think he was actually homophobic, or even that anti-Tyler really... it was more standard-issue assholery that went very, very bad.

I read the same New Yorker article and came away with the same impression. I'd have to know more about the specifics of the charges against him and the laws that he was charged under, but bias intimidation and "hate crimes" sounds way out of line for what he did.

I'll bet the prosecutors are going to knock off work early today.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 12:48 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

I've been following from the start.

Since Ravi has yet to show any remorse for any of his actions, I feel he should receive the maximum sentence. If there's any way of having him serve on each of the counts consecutively rather than concurrently, I'd be all for it. As for his possible deportation, my mind is not as certain. We will know in May when he is finally sentenced just what the judge plans to do. For now, I take comfort knowing he was convicted. It won't bring Tyler Clementi back to life; but, maybe it will serve as a warning for at least a few people out there who think actions such as Ravi's are humorous.

That's how I feel about the whole trial and Ravi's obvious culpability in the whole set of crimes. The fact he tried to cover up his actions alongside his lack of remorse make his guilty as if he pushed his victim to his death.

A show of humility and acknowledgement of his own part before the trial and even before the arrest if it had been possible should have saved him from any criminal charges with the only consequence of being expelled from the school perhaps.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 01:23 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I do not know as here is a break down where he was not found guilty of all 15 charges
He was found guilty on all 15 counts.

Quote:
Lord you can not count of reporters to get anything straight.
They did get it straight.

Ravi was found guilty on all counts, there were 15 of them, Ravi received a guilty in each of those counts, parts of some of the counts he was acquitted on, but not the entire count.
Quote:
COUNT 1
4th Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
4th Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Clementi's guest, M.B.: GUILTY
(Observed Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact without their consent on Sept. 19)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 2;

COUNT 2
• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 3
3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
3rd Degree Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Activated webcam so other people could view Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact on Sept 19.)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 4;

COUNT 4
2nd Degree Bias Intimidation

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY


• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 5
4th Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
4th Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Tried to observe Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact without their consent on Sept. 21)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 6

COUNT 6
3rd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 4th Degree Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 21)

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 7
3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to Tyler Clementi: GUILTY
3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy, related to M.B.: GUILTY
(Tried to show Clementi/M.B. in sexual contact to other people on Sept. 21)

If Guilty, jury proceeds to count 8;

COUNT 8
2nd Degree Bias Intimidation
(For 3rd Degree Attempted Invasion of Privacy charge on Sept. 21)

• Invasion of Privacy, with the purpose to intimidate Tyler Clementi because of sexual orientation: GUILTY


• Invasion of Privacy, knowing that the conduct constituting invasion of privacy would cause Tyler Clementi to be intimidated because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

• Invasion of Privacy, under circumstances that caused Tyler Clementi to be intimidated, and considering the manner in which the offense was committed, Clementi reasonably believed that he was selected to be the target of the offense because of sexual orientation: GUILTY

COUNT 9
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Deleted tweets relevant to police investigation)

COUNT 10
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Wrote and posted a false tweet)

COUNT 11
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Destroyed evidence relevant to investigation)

COUNT 12
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Prevented a witness from providing testimony)

COUNT 13
3rd Degree Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution: GUILTY
(Lied to police)

COUNT 14
3rd Degree Witness Tampering: GUILTY
(Tried to influence what Molly Wei told police)

COUNT 15
4th Degree Tampering with Physical Evidence: GUILTY
(Deleted text messages sent to and received from witnesses)

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 01:23 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
make his guilty as if he pushed his victim to his death


Ravi is indeed guilt of an invasion of privacy of those two men and some level of punishment is call for but 15 repeat 15 charges and a hate crime on top of it!!!!

Sorry no one drove that gentleman to suicide that was a weakness within him that was likely to had been trigger by any numbers of events in the future concerning his sexuality or for some other reason for that matter.

This is another example of you will plead bargain or we will throw ever charge that our minds can come up with at you.

Given his age and no real showing that he had any great hate for gays but his actions was more in line with a dumb kid the idea of such overcharging is in itself a crime.

Fifteen charges and ten years indeed................................
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 01:45 pm
I have a ready made bias against him, but I wasn't at the trial. Just checked the NYer to see if the article is behind a pay screen, and good, it's not, so I'll read it and consider.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 02:42 pm
@ossobuco,
From my readings they was willing to give him a deal with no jail time but with a felony conviction that might had mean he would had been deported even if they also stated they would aid him in that regard.

From that we go to 15 charges and up to ten years behind bars all due to his wish to exercise his rights for a jury of his peers to hear the case.

This is extreme overcharging in an attempt to force him to not to exercise his constitution rights to a jury trial and he is being punish more for the jury trial then his misdeeds.

This pressure results in 9 out of 10 cases being settle with a plea bargain.

We no long had a true justice system in my opinion.
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 02:48 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:
Is anybody here following this trial? Do you think Dharun Ravi should get the maximum sentence allowed by law?
I've only just read your links and the New Yorker article.

My emotional side says throw the book at him. My rational side hasn't yet spoken (still angry/saddened at the cruelty exhibited).
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 02:49 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

From that we go to 15 charges and up to ten years behind bars all due to his wish to exercise his rights for a jury of his peers to hear the case.

No one forced him into a trial by jury.
Quote:
This pressure results in 9 out of 10 cases being settle with a plea bargain.

Your understanding of our judicial system is a tad off mark. He could have asked for a trial without a jury. A trial with only the judge which might have favored his individual case.


Quote:
a judge trial is likely to be more informal and easier for you to conduct than a jury trial. For example, in the absence of a jury, your judge may not insist on strict adherence to courtroom procedural rules and rules of evidence. And, of great importance, you can reasonably expect a judge to ignore inflammatory, irrelevant, or other inadmissible evidence from your adversary that slips by you because of your unfamiliarity with evidence rules. Jurors, however, may well be influenced by the improper evidence even if the judge tells them to disregard it.

AND
Quote:
Lawyer folk wisdom often points to choosing a jury if a case has emotional appeal, and choosing a judge if a case is complex and based on technical legal questions.

The latter sentiment applies to this case.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/judge-vs-jury-trial-faq-29139.html
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:11 pm
@tsarstepan,
With or with out a jury they would had still loaded the charges up and this is to short circuit the right to a trial with a jury or a judge.

Guilty or innocent it no longer matter as the risks of going to trial in most cases is make so high by overcharging that even if innocent the rational thing to do is plead out.

Perhaps you think this is a justice system but I do not.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:23 pm
@Irishk,
Quote:
My emotional side says throw the book at him. My rational side hasn't yet spoken (still angry/saddened at the cruelty exhibited).



Emotionally yes I can see that however I think this was not an act out of hate but more out of stupidty that deserve punishment and off hand that the state had it about right on the plead deal they was offering him.

I can also see charging him to a somewhat greater degree for having a trial then the plead deal but come on hate crimes and fifteen charges and up to 10 years in prison!!!!!!



panzade
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2012 09:46 am
I read the New Yorker article and came away feeling Ravi was a jerk but I don't know if he merits 10 years.

I'm also wrestling with the impact of hate crime legislation. Does it serve a purpose or does it hinder prosecutions?

Quote:
A longtime gay rights activist in New York, Bill Dobbs, also was troubled by the case.

"As hate crime prosecutions mount, the problems with these laws are becoming more obvious ... how they compromise cherished constitutional principles," Dobbs said. "Now a person gets tried not just for misdeeds, but for who they are, what they believe, what their character is."


Which leads me to another conundrum.If a defendant shows no remorse do they merit a stiffer penalty?
 

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