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@Irishk,

Irishk wrote:

All five books were available when I started reading the series, so I was able to skip the 'frustrated fan' part. And since Martin has alerted us that his next volume won't be ready for another two or three years, I won't waste time on fretting over something out of my control. Of course, I'll have to reread the series by the time book 6 comes out lol (looks like I'll have plenty of time for that).

Hey, thanks for the Malazan tip. A Canadian! Great reviews, too...I've already added the first book to my reading list.

The thing to note about Erikson's writing is that he dives right in with very little explanation. The first 100 pages of the Malazan series are very difficult because it's a complex world with a deep backstory and unique magic system. But please stick with it, by the end of the first book you will be completely and totally hooked.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

I'm not a fan of Butcher. Codex Alera is the best of what I've read, and while it starts well it doesn't come to satisfactory finish.

Don't get me started on the Dresden (He's a Wizard! He's a hard-boiled PI!) crap.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

2, the guy totally disrespects his own fan base by lazing about and taking 5-7 years to write a book. If you are an active and voracious reader (I read 2-3 fantasy and sci-fi novels a week, every single week) this is a ridiculously slow pace. Out of active authors he's writing at the slowest pace of ANYONE I know.

Good lord. I refer to to the words of Neil Gaiman: "George RR Martin is not your bitch."

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

Quote:

People are not machines. Writers and artists aren't machines.

You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first book in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you.

No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next.

His delivery schedule is between him and his publisher.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Good lord. I refer to to the words of Neil Gaiman: "George RR Martin is not your bitch."

That works both ways - I'm not his, either. If he can't produce a quality product on a reasonable time frame, why should I be a consumer of his product?

Writing for profit is a business, just like any other. There is an expectation that if the business wants to retain customers, it will make at least some effort to provide service in a timely fashion.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

So don't read his stuff.

I just don't understand why you take it so personally.

Go buy a beer, or a different book, or something. Why are you so worked up about it?

Do you get pissed off at Nabisco for not creating new kinds of cookies every year?

If you hired a painter in the past, and now you call and he's busy with other projects for a couple of months, do you go around bad mouthing him as being a lazy jackass?

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

So don't read his stuff.

No problem with me!

Quote:

I just don't understand why you take it so personally.

I disdain the fanboy-ism that I see surrounding what I consider to be sub-par fantasy writing. Feel free to consider it elitism on my part.

Quote:

Go buy a beer, or a different book, or something. Why are you so worked up about it?

You should see me when I REALLY get worked up!

Quote:

Do you get pissed off at Nabisco for not creating new kinds of cookies every year?

No, but I also don't expect them to continue the Cookie Story that I'm waiting to see the end of. A better example would be going to a restaurant and being promised a meal in a timely manner, but while the beers come quick and the salad is great, the appetizer and entrees take forever and it seems like dessert is going to be an extra hour. And when you complain, they say, 'So what? The Chef is an artiste, he doesn't work for you, if you don't want to wait, leave!' Pretentious bastards.

Quote:

If you hired a painter in the past, and now you call and he's busy with other projects for a couple of months, do you go around bad mouthing him as being a lazy jackass?

Only if he isn't completing the series of paintings that he both initially promised people and that made him famous and wealthy, while focusing on a bunch of other **** that nobody else but him cares about.

You seem to forget that Martin has on several occasions told his fans that the books would be out 'soon,' only to have years go by with no books forthcoming. It's poor customer communication. If he had simply said at the beginning, 'look, I'm in no rush, if you don't want to wait, don't ******* buy the books,' it would have been a more honest thing.

Cycloptichorn

3 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Whether or not Martin churns out his novels at a pace that suits you has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his work.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

So don't read his stuff.

I just don't understand why you take it so personally.

Go buy a beer, or a different book, or something. Why are you so worked up about it?

Do you get pissed off at Nabisco for not creating new kinds of cookies every year?

If you hired a painter in the past, and now you call and he's busy with other projects for a couple of months, do you go around bad mouthing him as being a lazy jackass?

Because he like to be a contrarian.

Thanks to the HBO series Martin has attracted readers who would probably not otherwise read anything of the genre.

If I'm not mistaken some outfit tried a Dresden series on TV and I don't think it attracted a fly to the books (or the shows) which, while entertaining. are not much more than pulp.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ranted against chocolate ice cream.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Whether or not Martin churns out his novels at a pace that suits you has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his work.

That's true - but you'll note that I actually made two separate complaints about the guy.

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if he ranted against chocolate ice cream.

Never!

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

For someone who doesn't like the books, you sure seem to be anxious that he's not putting them out fast enough.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Only if he isn't completing the series of paintings that he both initially promised people and that made him famous and wealthy, while focusing on a bunch of other **** that nobody else but him cares about.

I wonder... do you work on the **** you care about or only on the **** other people care about?

Seems to me that he's been working on the HBO series... a lot of people seem to care about that ****.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

For someone who doesn't like the books, you sure seem to be anxious that he's not putting them out fast enough.

As far as this....Stephen King took about 25 years to finish his Dark Tower (Roland the Gunslinger) series....actually, I just now read he just published "The Wind Through the Keyhole" the 8th book of the series. So we're looking at about 34 years.

It wasn't because he was writing so many other things, he just stopped writing that particular series in the middle. That is until he had his bad accident (hit by a van while he was walking) and it was his wake up call.
Oh, he'd had lots of people writing him all the time begging him to finish up. I understand one woman wrote who was dying of cancer, and wanted to read the ending before she died.

But you know what? I don't think you can just magically be inspired to write because others want you to.

King always writes a letter to his "Faithful Readers" at the end of his books, and that what I am, a faithful and patient reader of him.

Martin, King or any other writer need to write for reasons other than whiney butts crying "come onnnnnn already."

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

A better example would be going to a restaurant and being promised a meal in a timely manner, but while the beers come quick and the salad is great, the appetizer and entrees take forever and it seems like dessert is going to be an extra hour. And when you complain, they say, 'So what? The Chef is an artiste, he doesn't work for you, if you don't want to wait, leave!' Pretentious bastards.

And if the management were happy with that state of affairs, I simply wouldn't eat there. I might express bafflement at how they remain in business, but really they're allowed to conduct their business however they choose.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
A better example would be going to a restaurant and being promised a meal in a timely manner, but while the beers come quick and the salad is great, the appetizer and entrees take forever and it seems like dessert is going to be an extra hour. And when you complain, they say, 'So what? The Chef is an artiste, he doesn't work for you, if you don't want to wait, leave!' Pretentious bastards.

And if the management were happy with that state of affairs, I simply wouldn't eat there. I might express bafflement at how they remain in business, but really they're allowed to conduct their business however they choose.

You wouldn't wonder why other people rave about the place? Or, when you point out the service sucks, why they attack you for even raising the idea that the provider has any responsibilites to you whatsoever?

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Only if he isn't completing the series of paintings that he both initially promised people and that made him famous and wealthy, while focusing on a bunch of other **** that nobody else but him cares about.

I wonder... do you work on the **** you care about or only on the **** other people care about?

It depends on what I expect from other people, and how I make my living. Martin gets paid to write books and his fans support his lifestyle. Many of them have invested good money over the years buying his books and supporting the TV show made from his books. That essentially makes them customers of his, in the same way that I have customers of MY business. The big difference is that I provide my services on time and when I make promises to deliver - I deliver.

Quote:

Seems to me that he's been working on the HBO series... a lot of people seem to care about that ****.

Meh, I've seen some of it, there's a thin plot, some special effects, and far too much unnecessary graphic sexuality. Not saying that this isn't enjoyable enough - I enjoy light porn as much as the next guy - but it certainly isn't high art.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

For someone who doesn't like the books, you sure seem to be anxious that he's not putting them out fast enough.

As far as this....Stephen King took about 25 years to finish his Dark Tower (Roland the Gunslinger) series....actually, I just now read he just published "The Wind Through the Keyhole" the 8th book of the series. So we're looking at about 34 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Tower_%28series%29

The 'series' itself was begun in 1982 and finished in 2004, which is 22 years. the newest book is set in the middle of the series, but does add on another few years if you want to count it that way, which would be 30 total.

In that time, King has published a tremendous number of other high-quality, best-selling books that his fans have enjoyed. What more, many if not most of these books were in fact related to the Dark Tower series in a variety of ways and have been very enjoyable additions to the series for his true fans.

You simply can't say the same about Martin. During the time he's been writing his main series, he has done no other significant work for his fans to enjoy. There is no comparison in terms of the amount of service the two offer their fan base. I also feel that King's writing and storytelling is of a much higher quality than Martin's. I feel perfectly comfortable stating these things, as I have every single book and story that King has ever written, and have read most of his books multiple times.

Quote:

It wasn't because he was writing so many other things

It was in fact in large part due to this fact - but also because, in his own words, he didn't know yet how the story ended.

I find comparisons of the two of these people to be laughable. King is one of the most prolific writers of our day. He hasn't been able to stop himself from pumping out enjoyable, high-quality books, even after he had declared himself to be retired. He has often stated that he is compelled to write, and write quickly, by the stories that appear inside him. I find him to be a superior author to Martin in every single way.

Cycloptichorn

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Well, no offense to Martin, but I prefer King too.

When I sit down to read a Stephen King book, it's like visiting a well known friend. I already have a lot of point of references for his characters, I am used to the language he uses, the tone, his humor, etc. etc.

But, I can't compare the 2 based on my intimate reading history with King, and my much newer relationship with Martin.

I'm almost done w/ the 2nd book, and I will admit my interest has grown because the various characters and scenes are starting to come together.

1 Reply

@chai2,

if you're enjoying the books you'll like these novellas, they take place many years before the current the tales

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Dunk_and_Egg

there are three tales so far collected in various anthologies, apparently a fourth one is coming soon, and a collection of all four in one book is said to follow

1 Reply

@djjd62,

Quote:

apparently a fourth one is coming soon

Before we die? lol

I liked the Dunk & Egg novellas almost more than the series. I'll have to watch for the 4th one.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Presumably you're well enough off not to just have to take any work you can to earn a paycheck.

Probably Martin is, too.

I get that you don't like the guy; frankly I don't think he treats his fans very well, either. I just don't get why you're so pissed off at him.

As for the series not being timeless literature... I'd have to agree, while keeping in mind that very few authors ever write timeless literature.

My work, while high quality, is hardly timeless, and I doubt yours is either. Why do you hold Martin to that standard?

0 Replies

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