I'm pretty tired of catholics; I used to be one

I have some still catholic friends. Live and let live. I hate to broach this stuff, we'll see. Might take me a while.

I don't know what you mean about nod-along, but I was thinking about starting a thread re catholics and birth control, listening to the news.

Religious organizations, including catholics are going to end up paying for the birth control via the back end, in increased premiums.

It's just a way to look nice.

I personally don't know any catholic women who have any problem with birth control at all.
The thread I was thinking of starting earlier was to ask just that....If there were any catholics who eschewed BC, or who knew anyone who did.

Back in the 70's when I was in catholic high school, it was never even a discussion whether BC would be used, if you had half a brain. Not indicating the girls/boys were sexually active or not at any particular time, just that it would be used.

The whole thing is archaic.

Funny...

here's a cut and paste that expresses it perfectly....

If You’re Catholic – Don’t Use Birth Control
Posted by PoliShifter on 9 February 2012, 11:17 am
If you’re Catholic, don’t use Birth Control. Problem Solved.

You can still go to church 7 days a week and listen to your Priest tell you that you should not use Birth Control. The Government is NOT telling the Church what it can and cannot teach.

However, Church-owned organizations with non-Catholic employees cannot discriminate against their employees by refusing to cover Birth Control because they feel it is against Catholic Church teachings. All the Catholic Employees can just refuse to use Birth Control.

Problem Solved.

This is not a religious freedom issue. All you Catholics are still free to believe the Church should teach that Birth Control is a sin while you all use Birth Control in your private lives. You can still go to confession and tell your Priest that you use condoms and birth control pills and pray for forgiveness.

This is an Equal Protection and Equal Rights issue. The Catholic Church cannot force its teachings and views onto non-Catholics.

This issue would not be so laughable if a majority of Catholics actually followed the Church’s teachings. The fact is most Catholics use Birth Control. Get over it.

Again, if you’re Catholic and want to respect the Church’s teachings – easy enough. Don’t use Birth Control but don’t force your archaic views onto the rest of us.

Haven't looked past this post of yours yet, but yeah.

So.... I'm wondering why all these women of many sorts are quiet mice - politesse?

I'll add for anyone who doesn't know, that I signed up to be a postulant (aka nun).
I was saved buy the skin of my teeth by exposure to men at work. (laughs, but it's half true)

But - I worked my way out of catholicism via theology. Haven't paid attention to any of that since.

But never mind, given my background, I can understand a lot of people.

I get the irony on your link, but I'm from earlier, which is worse.

Anyway, I apprehend a lot of quiet catholics.

Please...Obama hasn't "climbed down" from his position on this issue.

Since he is such a political animal he thinks that he can fashion a flase "compromise" that will fool the bishops into a concession.

If I have a fundamental and religiously based aversion to x-rays, and don't want to facilitate my employees availing themselves of such a procedure, then there is absolutely no difference between the government requiring me to provide x-ray services to my employees and requiring the insurance company I contract with for employee health care to do so.

If the bishops accept this dishonest compromise then they have revealed themselves to favor politics over faith.

I won't be surprised if this is the case.

It doesn't matter whether or not the majority of Catholic women practices birth control.

The government doesn't get to decide whether a religion's tenent is either compatible with political will or valid based upon beliver adherence.

I think 98% of women have used birth control at some point, nothing to do with catholics... Yet aren't catholics meant to wait for marriage? Churches do run businesses, they are in it for the money in my opinion, greed, 10% of everyone's income yeee ha, let's build wealth:)

So what are the bishops complaining about? In what light? Catholic and Non Catholic becomes a choice of what you want out of life and which way you want to go and at 16, I'd assume that unless you really believed, it would be hard to conceed and be so rightous.. There is rebellion at play.

Catholic women, men, people, have a belief, if someone with power taps into that, they win votes.

I say be you.. Believe in what you want in life and try to be good, well literally, at all you do...

Here's some links on the 98% of catholics claims -

http://news.yahoo.com/98-catholic-women-used-contraception-church-opposes-201936745.html
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/02/catholics_need_to_preach_what_we_practice/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/madeline-walsh/catholic-church-birth-control_b_1268688.html

I briefly read one, and will definately read them all.

What the has Government got to do with religion?

Whether they are Catholic or not, to me has no baring, women should be sexual creatures, what it suprises them that Catholics are human? Why should the Church pay for insurance oh, I know, they make money off the Catholics and the Government want some it.

Be back when I've read more:)

You are right on with your example, but you reach the wrong conclusion.

How could you imagine modern medical care with the use of X-rays. If you tell your employees they can't get X-rays due to your religious beliefs, then you are basically excluding them from a key part of modern health care.

Employers, religious or not, don't have the right to determine what medical care their employees have access to. Whether you are opposed to vaccines, or antibiotics or, in this case, contraceptives, sorry. Your employees have rights that transcend your beliefs.

Of course, the real issue here is why our health care system depends on employers at all. This is another reason we would do much better with a single payer health care system.

Well, simply put, employers get scale type discounts from insurers, in contrast to a single self employed worker trying to get insurance on his or her own. I wasn't officially employed after I left the medical world, either being an independent contractor or having my own small business (me) or a two owner business sans employees. I always had to pay a relatively horrendous amount for insurance.

So firms, for instance, catholic hospitals, offer employees group insurance benefits, part of the package of working there, enticement for good workers. I haven't followed whether by law they have to. Given they offer group insurance the insurance should contain standard medical care, in my and many other people's opinion. Standards of practice have some legal weight, not that I'm a legal smartie.

I haven't read up on the recent compromise thing, since it aggravated me at first read. So I have some reading homework to do.

The compromise is kind of a trick, but a good one. Obviously health insurance companies are happy to pay for birth control. Birth control saves them money.

So the compromise is saying fine, the religious management doesn't have to pay for birth control. They simply have to let the health insurance companies pay for free birth control. It moves the responsibility from the employer to the health insurance company.

Of course this compromise is a bit of a political slight of hand.

But then, the Catholics are way out of line on this issue. They should take take it and go back to doing whatever constructive thing Catholics do that doesn't take rights from other people.

Max, thanks for the short cut so I can avoid aggravation - I like that workaround in a crazy world.

I see I fibbed here - just to correct. I was employed in the beginning of my land arch career for a fellow with quite a confused office for thirteen half days, said bye, and, the opposite, for a major firm re the US for something like four months but then they let 90% of the staff go in the recession of that era, including me. Now that was fun, however short lived. Point being there was a bit of time in the profession when I didn't somehow work for myself, but even in those cases I was part time and still paid for my own #%&## insurance.

Hmmm. I wonder about the tax angle. If, and bear down on the IF, the particular church function is already tax exempt, does the government have even a pretext of a right to interfere?

Not sure that's even a relevant consideration. Someone should ask Thomas. He seems to enjoy these side trips.

I'm naturally ignorant on that. Hospitals are corporations, right? They probably have mechanisms for dealing with taxes as it is.

I'm quite ignorant on how far the tax exemptness of churches extends.