I'm pretty tired of catholics; I used to be one

That makes sense.

Possibly, but I'm not Catholic so I really don't know. Do you mean as a possible tool to counter the religious stance of the Church?

Yes. Back in the day there was a newspaper, I think named the national catholic reporter, which my family subscribed to (thinking, my father..). I had learned about sex from the Ligorian when I was fourteen (no, hell for you if you are in a car crash), but this newspaper had columns about the Hans Kung - Gustavratzenhofer theology spats. I make fun, that was Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict. Sigh, earlyish sixties, maybe '64.

Yes, I mean as a possible tool.
I've not very hopeful, the system has cardinaled up to the right.

Nope

Of course they have no business telling you what you should do with the money they pay you, but healthcare (and other benefits) are not equivalent to salary.

Once they decide what benefits to extend to you, their influence ends, but since they are paying for these benefits, they have a legitimate interest in what they may be.

If you don't want their interests to be involved, purchase your health insurance elsewhere. If that means you may have to pay more than otherwise, well that's the price of deciding what your benefits may be.

The leftist ideology always depends upon someone else being coerced to do what the collective elite decides to be right.

Unfortunately there are an ever increasing shitload of leftist and so they may eventually get their way. Of course their way cannot be sustained and will inevitably lead to ruin, but why should they care?

In the short term, they won.

Good then I have no problem with what you are saying. Except that right now without an employer mandate to provide health care coverage our system has been falling apart.

I would far prefer a single payer system. But as long as we depending on employers to provide health care for our citizens, then we need to be able to ensure that employers are actually providing health care.

if that healthcare is not delivered at a reasonable cost ( and America can not currently deliver health care at a reasonable cost) then your proposal is the equivalent of taking a nuclear bomb to the American economy, as in a global economy if American producers can not compete on price then they and the nation are fucked. You have not thought this idea through maxancona, this much is clear.

Of course I have thought this through Hawkeye. There are lots of countries with a single payer system. All of them provide health care at much lower cost than the US. Many of them have better health outcomes.

Of course the US health care is already a nuclear bomb in the American economy. Health care costs have kept rising much faster than the economy which puts drag on American businesses. Whether Obamacare is a big enough change to stop this disaster is an interesting question.

So, sloe like, what has this to do with the question re mandating on catholics?


Some of you are annoying. I'm still interested in the question.

Falling apart? Really?

85% of Americans have health insurance and most of them have been happy with their plans.

Doesn't sound like a system that's falling apart, but then I don't look for 100% satisfaction in anything, because I know it is impossible.

Employers are not forcing us all to obtain health insurance through our employment. It's worked out this way because it has benefited both employees and employers.

If anyone doesn't like the health plan their employer provides (and most people do) they can find a new job.

We're not indentured servants or slaves. We can all seek employment elsewhere.

You might love your duties, your pay and your working environment, but be dissatisfied with your health benefits.

Buck up for Christ's sake and make a personal decision based upon personal preferences, and the reality that most times you can't have everything you want.

A government that can tell employers what benefits they have to provide is a government that can and will tell companies what they can and cannot sell and what consumers can and cannot buy. It is a government that can make any and all decisions for us.

You're OK with this sort of intrusive government because right now the intrusive government tends to agree with your sense of what is right and wrong, but what happens when the government tells women they can't have abortions or that everyone must belong to a religion?

No doubt you will then be squeeling like a stuck pig about the overreach of government.

We have it too good.

You are kidding, no?

You are the penultimate spoiled brat.

There is no way in hell that Obamacare even begins to address the dysfunction and outrageous cost of the American HealthCare system , nor was it ever intended to do so. There is no question to be answered.

American business will simply refuse to pay, because they can not both pay and stay competitive and pay off the ruling class stakeholders to the level to which they have become accustomed. The nuclear bomb as it is now set goes off in the government budget, which will effect the economy, but not until the bankers shut down our charge cards, an unpleasant experience that the Europeans can now tell us a thing or two about.

About what?

You obviously don't know what penultimate means, and you obviously don't know anything about me.

Get stuffed you sanctimonious twit.

Well, here -
85% of Americans have health insurance and most of them have been happy with their plans.

Most of them are sucking up more dollars of healthcare than the nation can afford..wake up and smell the coffee, please.

85% of Americans with health insurance is a good number to you? That seems awfully low to me and among wealthy countries it is appalling.

Of course the real disaster of US health care is the rising costs. In 2010 health care costs were 16% of our GDP and costs are rising at astronomical rate. There is a limit to how much the American economy can take in health care costs, and we were rising fast and getting close.



The good thing about government is that government belongs to me. I have a recourse if government doesn't support my values. I can vote. I can talk to my representatives and I can use the public square.

It is appropriate for government, which is accountable to all Americans, to be making these decisions. I will agree sometimes and disagree sometimes, but that is how democracy always works.

It is not appropriate for the Catholic church to be making these decisions.

I fool with words. That is my way. You were the first to call me on that, some word play I did, to correct me. I forget the context, it was quite funny at the time, you had no clue.

You are the one who lapses in comprehension of creativity.

I'm not actually sanctimonious, not being perfect. More of a pricker of it.

Does anyone here think I don't know what penultimate means?

But you are OK with our employer, who really has no business saying anything about healthcare, dictating how healthy we must be to be full participants in this economy (IE health enough to gain employment), and deciding which insurance companies win the battle to control the healthcare system?