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IT LOOKS BAD FOR GUN CONTROL IN UTAH

 
 
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 09:44 pm
SALT LAKE CITY —
A bill proposed for the 2012 Utah Legislature would protect a person
who is lawfully carrying a firearm in public from being charged with
non-firearm related crimes such as disorderly conduct or disturbing
the operation of a school.

HB49, sponsored by Rep. Paul Ray, R-Clearfield, states that,
“… in the absence of additional threatening behavior, the otherwise
lawful possession of a firearm … whether visible or concealed”
would not in itself constitute a violation of various criminal statutes.

The statutes specified by the bill also include failure to leave a
higher education campus when ordered, failure to disperse,
disrupting a meeting or procession, threatening with or using a
dangerous weapon in a fight, and several others, according to
the current version of the bill.

The initial version of the bill is only a very rough draft and Ray said
he is working with gun rights advocates, prosecutors and others to
create an extensive revision. “What you’re seeing isn’t what you’re
going to get,” he said.

Ray expects the new version of the “Firearms Revisions” bill to be
completed late this week. The bill’s purpose is to clarify when a
person lawfully carrying a gun in public, concealed or not, can be
charged with disorderly conduct or other crimes that are not
explicitly gun-related.

For example, if someone with a license is carrying a concealed
weapon and it inadvertently becomes visible, could he or she be
charged with brandishing a weapon?

Utah law says anyone (who is acting lawfully) can openly carry guns
anywhere. –Rep. Paul Ray Would the bill mean a person could openly
carry an assault rifle into a school or a mall? “I would think you honestly
could do that now,” Ray said. As an open-carry state, “Utah law says anyone
(who is acting lawfully) can openly carry guns anywhere.”

In an email, gun control advocate Steven Gunn said, “The bill appears
to be an attempt to clarify ambiguities in existing Utah statutes
about open-carrying firearms; however, it seems to expand the
rights of gun owners to display such weapons, not merely to codify
the status quo.”

As it is now written, the bill would make it harder for private
property owners, such as store and mall owners, to exclude
someone from their property who is openly carrying a gun, Gunn
said and it also makes it clear that guns can be openly carried at
political gatherings, he said.

The bill expands gun rights at the expense of private property rights
and of fostering political dialogue, Gunn said. “Representative Ray
chooses to cater to extremists rather than those who seek public
dialogue and open expression of unpopular views,” he wrote.

Other provisions of the current HB49 say that local authorities may
not enact laws that place any restriction on the lawful possession of
firearms without explicitly referring to the specific state law that
grants them such authority and any law that does not meet that
requirement would become void, according to the bill.

Gunn, who is a board member of the Gun Violence Prevention
Center of Utah, said such language would seem to invalidate local
ordinances that treat the open carry of guns as a breach of peace, he said.
“The bill therefore treats open carry on the streets of downtown
Salt Lake City the same as open carry in, say, Woodruff or Marysvale,”
he wrote in the email.

Ray says the final version of the bill will have input from various
people and be widely acceptable to law enforcement authorities,
local officials, gun owners and others.
“We’ve invited everyone to the table,” he said.

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blueveinedthrobber
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 10:48 pm
sounds great...they'll all kill themselves acting like cowboys and we'll be short a few more assholes. If only we'd adapt that policy in the Mid East as well.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 10:56 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
Cowboys were safe among one another (dime novels to the contrary notwithstanding).

Thay had lower crime rates (according to newspapers of the day)
than city dwellers.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 10:57 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
I like Ike!

I also like your polar bear cub!





David
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 11:05 am
I am pro gun ownership David... just not pro all the guns you can afford, and walking around strapped, and connecting gun ownership to the qualification of being a real patriotic American, AND acting like owning a shitload of guns and swaggering around makes one more of a "Man"...it's the bullshit that goes along with this crap, not the guns but the gun owners and the gun manufacturers who use the Marlboro Man and the 4 out of 5 doctors recommend Camels advertising strategy. How'd that work out?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 07:37 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
I am pro gun ownership David... just not pro all the guns you can afford,
Well, how about all the CARS u can afford?
More people have been killed by cars than by guns
( if u don't count military wars ). Motorcycles ?
Is a knife collection OK?
I think that 's part of freedom.
Historically, the deal that was made with government,
when government was created, was that it woud leave us alone,
as far as our guns were concerned; no jurisdiction, regarding guns
the same way that government has no authority to tell u how many songs u can sing, or how ofen u can buy a guitar,
or what u 've gotta sing about. Both ways: its none of their business.

Its a different story, if someone starts attacking others with or without guns.
( or smacking them with guitars )




blueveinedthrobber wrote:
and walking around strapped,
but its emergency equipment

When u NEED it, u better HAVE it, like a fire extinguisher.
U don 't wait until u r having a heart attack to stop n buy life insurance.
U can 't very well tell a pack of dogs, or a mugger, that u need to go home to GET it. Sometimes, thay don't co-operate.
I always carry my Primatine Mist against asthma attacks and aspirin against headaches.
( I found out that it hurts for too long when u don't have it handy.)






blueveinedthrobber wrote:
and connecting gun ownership to the qualification of being a real patriotic American,
The distinction is between radical self-reliance, for preservation of your existence,
or radical reliance upon the collective and its henchman: government
for the existence of yourself and of your family.

I don 't have that kind of faith in society.
I can't speak for Kitty Genovese or for Reginald Denny.
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."





blueveinedthrobber wrote:
AND acting like owning a shitload of guns and swaggering
around makes one more of a "Man"
Your DNA makes u a man.
Being well prepared is another question. If we ever met, I am confident
that u'd not accuse me of being arrogant, regardless of my equipment.
I am not a swaggerer. I never did it. I see no value in that.
I suspect that I 'd feel like a fool, if I tried it.
( I 'm not a dancer, either. )







blueveinedthrobber wrote:
...it's the bullshit that goes along with this crap, not the guns but the gun owners and the gun manufacturers who use the Marlboro Man
and the 4 out of 5 doctors recommend Camels advertising strategy. How'd that work out?
The last time that I had a cigarette, I was 9 years old; grossed me out.
That was enuf.
I posted a thread tonite about gun ownership and target practice
surging among the ladies in recent years in America.
No one needs to swagger.





David
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 07:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Well, how about all the CARS u can afford?
More people have been killed by cars than by guns


( if u don't count military wars )

Gee.. nice use of statistics David.
Oh.. if you don't count some of those killed by guns.. OK...

How about we don't count anyone killed by cars being driven?
Would your statistic still stand if anyone is allowed to make up whatever rules they want to use?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 07:59 pm
@parados,

DAVID wrote:
Well, how about all the CARS u can afford?
More people have been killed by cars than by guns


( if u don't count military wars )
parados wrote:

Gee.. nice use of statistics David.
Oh.. if you don't count some of those killed by guns.. OK...
Thanx, Parados. When it comes to statistics,
I know I can always count on u.







parados wrote:
How about we don't count anyone killed by cars being driven?
OK, if u say so.



parados wrote:
Would your statistic still stand if anyone
is allowed to make up whatever rules they want to use?
Just if the GOOD GUYS render the TRUTH!

How 's that?

So many guys have been killed by cars
that I have no idea how that compares to fatalities from military gunfire.

( Shud we include artillery?? What if he gets run over by a self-propelled gun ?? )





David
0 Replies
 
 

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