6
   

The Periodic Table is Upside Down -- Discuss

 
 
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2011 09:11 am
I'm reading "The Disappearing Spoon" (actually listening to it on an Audiobook) and, in order to see what the hell the author is talking about, I printed out a copy of the Periodic Table.

It seem to me that it's upside down. It would make much more sense if it showed the elements proceeding upwards as they gathered Atomic Weight and complexity.

Yes? No?
Joe(I'm all ears.)Nation
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2011 01:04 pm
Did you know this is the Feast of Stephen?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2011 02:05 pm
@Joe Nation,
A periodic table with heavier elements at the top would be unstable....

The current version is like a basket ball hoop with a base poured full of cement.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2011 04:52 pm
@DrewDad,
But the heavier elements ARE unstable, and, if our object is create a better understanding of how the universe works, wouldn't it (A tree-like Table) be both a clearer depiction of the atomic condition and more a teachable one?

"Sometimes an element will collapse (decay) back into the one below it."

I'm not insisting, I'm just asking.
~~
Yes, Set, I'm going out on this night, but, alas, there is no snow roundabout, crisp and cold and even.

Ir's a good thing W didn't go out on the feast of St. Ambrose.

Joe (then the verse would have to be about his frozen toes.)Nation
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2011 05:33 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
Yes, Set, I'm going out on this night, but, alas, there is no snow roundabout, crisp and cold and even.


Aha! Now we know who you really are, Joe. Sorry if I've ever offended you, your majesty.

Lustig (bowing abjectly to good King Wenceslaus) Andrei
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 11:53 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

But the heavier elements ARE unstable..

Not necessarily. Try this: do a x-y graph (automated here: http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/PropertiesOfTheElements/ )
with x atomic weight and y atomic radius; then click on "join with line" box.
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 10:18 am
@High Seas,
HoT: This why you are such a valuable contributor to A2K.

Thanks for the link.

Now I have ANOTHER time~suck to play with.
~~
But, don't you think if we did an animated Upside Down Table of the Elements and showed the most unstable (those most inclined to decay)woozily wavering, wouldn't the top have the most shaking going on?

Joe(Technetium falling all over Molybdenum.....)Nation
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 11:00 am
@Joe Nation,
Somebody who knows more chemistry than I do - and that's a real low threshold! - should answer your question. I do know that after you go past the initial fatties and cross atomic number 100 somewhere you get an island of stability. Element 117 (can't remember what isotopes) has a long half-life:
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2010/04/element-117-279x300.jpg
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2011 08:45 am
@High Seas,
Ununseptium. How many martinis were consumed in the lab the night they came up with that name?
~~
An island of stability.....there it would be, all of it's neighbors downstairs wavering and it floating serenely. That would bring in the first year chem students.

I say Ununseptium was supposed to be a joke and the Nobel Committee never caught on.

Or maybe they did.. http://enews.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/118-retraction.html
Joe(Non-Non-)Nation
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2011 09:03 am
@Joe Nation,
LOL, that's why I stayed with 117 and never mentioned 118! The names of these elements are only placeholders to use until their existence is definitely confirmed; all of 117's neighbors have weird names too, referring to actual numbers involved: 118 is Ununoctium (one-one-eight, using the Greek 8, octo).

But your article is from 2001, and later ununoctium's existence was confirmed (except nobody seems to know if it's a solid or a gas at room temperature, the poor thing never lived long enough for anyone to make sure). No matter, the existence of an island of stability has been confirmed for some time now:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Island-of-Stability.png/800px-Island-of-Stability.png
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2011 10:21 am
@High Seas,
P.S. your little island of stability gave me an idea - plotting Z (number of protons) against N (neutrons) and counting all known isotopes we get this >
http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/chart/help/index.jsp#colorcode (interactive on link)
http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/chart/images/ton_ct12_z7_cs4.png
> so now it's clear that elements and their isotopes we know about follow the Z=N diagonal over smaller atoms only, then veer off towards more neutrons than protons - guess you knew that. So - mathematically - the periodic table isn't upside down after all, unless a chemist shows up here to contradict me.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2011 10:28 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Did you know this is the Feast of Stephen?



Well, that changes EVERYTHING!
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2011 01:02 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:



"Sometimes an element will collapse (decay) back into the one below it."

I'm not insisting, I'm just asking.


Decay they do, but some atoms decay at rates longer than the life of our universe, and then others are isotopes decaying into more isotopes, and anyway what I really, really, want to know is: What is dark matter? What is it made of? Not out of any known elements or isotopes... While waiting for answer - came back to post correct link to interactive graphic, previously posted edited (sorry) and wish all here a happy, healthy, prosperous 2012.
http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/chart/index.jsp
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2011 01:34 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
But the heavier elements ARE unstable

If you stack stuff on top of them, they will be more stable?




Has anyone else noticed that the Periodic Stable is slowly decaying? Next thing we know it will be the Periodic Able.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 10:26 am
WO VS XY


Two new additions to periodic table of elements:

Element name: WOMAN

Symbol: WO

Atomic weight: (don't even go there)

Physical properties: Generally round in form. Boils at nothing and may freeze at any time. Melts whenever treated properly. Very bitter if mishandled.

Chemical properties: Very active. Highly unstable. Possesses strong affinity with gold, silver, platinum, and precious stones. Volatile when left alone. Able to absorb great amounts of exotic food. Turns
slightly green when placed next to a shinier specimen.

Usage: Highly ornamental. An extremely good catalyst for dispersion of wealth. Probably the most powerful income reducing agent known.

Caution: Highly explosive in inexperienced hands.

Element Name: MAN

Symbol: XY

Atomic Weight: (180+/-50)

Physical properties: Solid at room temperature, but gets bent out of shape easily. Fairly dense and sometimes flaky. Difficult to find a pure sample. Due to rust, aging samples are unable to conduct
electricity as easily as young samples.

Chemical properties: Attempts to bond with WO any chance it can get. Also tends to form strong bonds with itself. Becomes explosive when mixed with KD (Element: Child) for prolonged periods of time. Neutralize by saturating with alcohol.

Usage: None known. Possible good methane source. Good specimens are able to produce large quantities on command.

Caution: In the absence of WO, this element finds itself free from worry and monetarily stable.
Joe(No, I didn't write it)Nation
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 10:31 am
@Joe Nation,
That was some interesting reading. In spite of the thread title. Wink
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 12:09 pm
@mismi,
What part? Cool

Joe(heh)Nation
0 Replies
 
 

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