I just don’t understand drinking and driving

@cpguy,

cpguy wrote:

No one at this point knows what happened exactly, only Thom, Barry & god.

What is your reasoning in not capitalizing the name of God?????

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

I sure hope he has a lightning arrestor!

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@OmSigDAVID,

My apologies David - it should have been God. There actually was no reasoning behind it whatsoever. There just have been a lot of discussions here some good I feel and some not so good. From a defense standpoint there are just to many unknowns at this time. I also notice that many of these posts are from people that claim to be friends or acquaintances of Thom and how easily these people have decided from a few sentences from a press release his guilt. The facts are not clear and there are to many unknowns. It is clear to me at this point the fault might be with the driver of the car & / or the fault of the bike rider. There are so many scenarios which could be plausible at this point. The bottom line is both families are going through enormous amounts of grief and both families lives will never ever be the same from December 23rd forward.

2 Replies

@cpguy,

Is there anyone that you are aware of who does not think that Thom will do at least the mandatory min of 5.75 years no mater what happened?

1 Reply

- What was the driver of the cars BAC? Unknown
The information provided on this thread does not appear to be from reliable sources who were witness to the drivers consumption that night.
- What was the bike riders BAC? Unknown
- Was the driver of the car under the influence of any drugs? Unknown
- Was the bike rider under the influence of any drugs? Unknown
- What was the weather at 2:15 am on 12/23/11 -- Very Foggy
- Was the driver averting some other obstacle at the time of the accident? - Unknown
- Was the bike rider tired or sleep deprivived from the St Pete ordinance for transients? UK
- Were their skid marks? UK
- What part of the car was affected in the accident? UK
- Did the intersection and ground cover coupled with the foggy conditions create a visual obstacle?
- Did the driver of the car simply fall asleep?
- Did the bike rider simply become started in the weather or for some other unforseen circumstance and ride off the curb and head into the path of the oncoming car?
- Was there some sort of mechanical problem with the bicycle in question?
- Did the rider of the bicycle want to head into the oncoming car out of desperation, depression or some other dispute with a acquaintance.

The list of plausible scenarios and unanswered questions can go on and on and with a complete investigation into the accident and ultimately untimely death of the rider of the bicylcle we can hope that these questions and more can be answered without a shadow of doubt. We can only hope that the PCSO did do all their preliminary tests accurately and extensively with complete documentation.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

I would say that it is impossible to say with the few facts that are available coupled with the spin that the media has released. There are already variations in interuptation of the PCSO press release and what the news networks have released. It's 2:15 am and your driving on 5th avenue in dense fog, do you stop rigth on 5th avenue in dense fog and get out of your car to see what happened and endanger yourself knowing you are one block from home or do you continue one block home and call the police and/ or 911. Was the call from a cell phone to emergency officials while in route to your home 1 block away - or was the phone call from your home? What was the time frame from incident to call? The recorded tapes would yield answers to was the law followed? Should Thom had stopped in the street, endangering himself and others? Should Thom have went door to door at 2:15 am knocking on doors to find someone that would actually answer the door and help him and the rider of the bicylcle? What would have happened had stopped in the middle of the road, put on his emergency flashers and a family in a mini van also had come through the fog and hit his car or his person? What if Thom had stopped his car in the middle of the road, got out of his car to surmise the situation on the spot only to be hit himself in the middle of 5th avenue? Is this neighborhood safe to go door to door at 2:15 am? Where would this case go then? There are too many unknowns and there are too many scenarios that could have happened? It is too easy to simply come to a conclusion - drunk driver hit bicycle rider and killed them because that is exactly what those few sentences from the press release stated. Innocent until proven guilty.

0 Replies

@cpguy,

cpguy wrote:

- What was the driver of the cars BAC? Unknown
The information provided on this thread does not appear to be from reliable sources who were witness to the drivers consumption that night.
- What was the bike riders BAC? Unknown
- Was the driver of the car under the influence of any drugs? Unknown
- Was the bike rider under the influence of any drugs? Unknown
- What was the weather at 2:15 am on 12/23/11 -- Very Foggy
- Was the driver averting some other obstacle at the time of the accident? - Unknown
- Was the bike rider tired or sleep deprivived from the St Pete ordinance for transients? UK
- Were their skid marks? UK
- What part of the car was affected in the accident? UK
- Did the intersection and ground cover coupled with the foggy conditions create a visual obstacle?
- Did the driver of the car simply fall asleep?
- Did the bike rider simply become started in the weather or for some other unforseen circumstance and ride off the curb and head into the path of the oncoming car?
- Was there some sort of mechanical problem with the bicycle in question?
- Did the rider of the bicycle want to head into the oncoming car out of desperation, depression or some other dispute with a acquaintance.

The list of plausible scenarios and unanswered questions can go on and on and with a complete investigation into the accident and ultimately untimely death of the rider of the bicylcle we can hope that these questions and more can be answered without a shadow of doubt. We can only hope that the PCSO did do all their preliminary tests accurately and extensively with complete documentation.

Yeah; I 'm reminded of New York pleading practice
one of whose statutory denials is:
" I deny having sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief."

David

0 Replies

Just speaking only as a citizen:
I wish we knew whether Barry WANTED
to be avenged in such circumstances.
He is beyond human help.

The question in front of us is
whether we shud retributively ruin Thom's life. I have some doubts about that.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

The question in front of us is
whether we shud retributively ruin Thom's life. I have some doubts about that.

David I had a feeling if it come to a jury there is a chance that the jury will end up being hung as one and likely more then one juror will have the feeling but for the grace of god this man on trial could be me.

The homeless man is not likely to cause similar feelings rightly or wrongly.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

DAVID wrote:

The question in front of us is
whether we shud retributively ruin Thom's life. I have some doubts about that.

BillRM wrote:

David I had a feeling if it come to a jury there is a chance that the jury will end up being hung as one and likely more then one juror will have the feeling but for the grace of god this man on trial could be me.

I agree that
thay woud tend to do that, Bill.
In my opinion, a lot of them woud empathize with Thom,
because the American public likes to drink alcohol
and it moves around (not always legally).

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In my opinion, a lot of them woud empathize with Thom,
because the American public likes to drink alcohol
and it moves around (not always legally).

If you drink and drive you've got only yourself to blame. If you don't want to be in that situation, don't drink and drive, it's quite simple.

0 Replies

@cpguy,

Do you know Thom? Do you know the area? Plenty of people saw how much Thom drank that night before leaving the bar after 2am, it wasn't that foggy, plenty of places for him to pull his car over and park! The man bounced off his windshield, that's another fact!

1 Reply

@Sloan,

Quote:

The man bounced off his windshield, that's another fact!

What "fact" we do not know is if his drinking had anything at all to do with the homeless man ending up bouncing off his windshield or not.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Do you think it helped his perception? If you do, that's a pretty absurd and senseless debate.

2 Replies

@Ragman,

I think that if is very possible that the best driver in the world with the fastest reaction time and eyesight possible to a human being might not had been able to avoid that accident if that bike had no lights on it.

We do not know if the man drinking had a damn thing to do with the cyclist death or not.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

As Bill has just stated, quite absurdly considering he's an atheist, that a lot of the jury would be thinking, 'there but for the grace of God go I, it's clear he doesn't see anything wrong with drinking and driving.

0 Replies

@cpguy,

cpguy wrote:

We can not clearly pass any judgement from heresay, friends of friends, or assumptions.

and then you go on to offer your own guesses/assessments and assumptions.

<shrug>

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Then why not just drive with one hand or blindfolded or on heroin? If drivers did that, what do you think the pedestrian kill-rate would be? Higher or lower?

Isnt it bad enough that people are driving while texting, getting their email messages or doing their makeup while driving?

2 Replies

@cpguy,

You are mixing things that matter in a criminal case and a civil suit.

Most of the factors you mention related to the condition of the bicycle and cyclist are only of interest if there is a civil suit and there is then a question of contributory negligence.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Quote:

Then why not just drive with one hand or blindfolded or on heroin? If drivers did that, what do you think the pedestrian kill-rate would be? Higher or lower?

Or tired or sleepy or as you said on the telephone or after a break up with a partner or.

Next we are not talking averages but one accident instead and if a sober driver could not had avoid this accident then this driver drinking had zero to do with the death and the manslaughter charge should be thrown out.

0 Replies

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

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