43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 11:47 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
If only he would.
O, C'mon; surely u woud not run him over!?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:13 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

This is about a man who had way too much to drink, killed someone in a hit and run and then fled the scene of the crime.


"Way to much to drink"= what BAC, because I am not aware that we know his BAC.

It is cute how you double dip on the "running" part of this alleged crime, and while I appreaciate rhetorical trickery skills honest debate would better.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 01:14 pm
@izzythepush,
Neither Hawkeye nor BillRM has addressed the issue of drunk driving. They've avoided the most obvious aspect of this case--A man got into a car drunk and killed someone. And now he has to face the penalties for his actions.

There is no legitimate way, from a moral point of view, of diminishing the driver's responsibility for his actions. All this garbage about the homeless, or the legal system railroading people, or any of the other irrelevancies they've tossed in as diversionary tactics, are just that--garbage. Thom Swift was driving drunk and Barry Lancaster died because he was hit by Swift's car. How could Swift not be responsible for contributing to that death?

Swift will not be railroaded into jail, every aspect of the charges against him will be debated by both the prosecution and the defense. If any exculpatory evidence emerges, or law enforcement procedural errors can be found, they will help to lower his charges and any potential sentence. But there is no getting around the fact that he spent the night in a bar drinking, got into a car and drove impaired by alcohol, with diminished reaction time, depth perception, coordination, visual acuity, and night vision, as a result of the effects of alcohol on his central nervous system, and he ran into a man on a bicycle and killed him, and he did not stop and remain at the scene. He should have been arrested. He should face punishment for the consequences of driving in an illegal and impaired condition. And one of the consequences of his impaired driving behavior was the death of another human being. He didn't hit a tree or a parked car, he hit another person, and killed him, and, for that reason, the legal consequences for Swift should be considerably more than a slap on the wrist.

We are not in a court and sitting in the jury box right now. And we don't have to have nonsensical debates about how do we know Swift was really drunk or whether the accident would have been unavoidable even if he was sober. Unless one is extremely paranoid, as both BillRM and Hawkeye are, it is safe to assume, for purposes of our discussion, that Swift was legally drunk and that the state has evidence to back that up. And, being legally drunk, his capacity to deal with any accident avoidance situation would be considerably diminished. His ability to even see, let alone react to, a man on a bike, who was probably in front of his car, would be diminished by the effects of alcohol, and that would certainly contribute to the outcome of the car hitting the man and killing him. That's DUI manslaughter.

These armchair defense attorneys, Hawkeye and BillRM, have engaged in mainly absurd smoke and mirrors tactics, that no actual self-respecting defense attorney would likely employ, because they don't want to deal with the main issue that the man was driving drunk and his ability to operate a motor vehicle was impaired. So, by not acknowledging that essential component, they not only lose all credibility regarding what else they might say, they simply look like fools.

Other than some mild curiosity about the final outcome of this case, simply because jcboy knows the person involved, I can't say that I really care about the exact nature of the sentence that Swift will receive. I don't know him, I don't know the victim, and the basic issues involved seem common to most DUI accidents. I'm not unduly paranoid. I don't think Swift was unjustly arrested or charged, I don't think he's being railroaded, I do think his defense will be vigorous, and whatever punishment is eventually agreed on, whether by plea agreement or jury decision, is fine with me.

I don't need to hear Swift's side of the story because, unlike Hawkeye, I respect the man's right to remain silent. The defense doesn't have to mount a case. And, if Swift eventually pleads guilty, even to reduced charges, unlike Hawkeye, I will accept that as a sincere acknowledgment of responsibility on his part. Should a jury exonerate him, I can live with that as well. I have no vested interest in the outcome of this case and I have no problem with how that outcome is arrived at. Whether or not this goes to trial is a decision for Swift to make, and that decision should not be made to satisfy Hawkeye's or BillRM's desire to see an "accounting of the facts" or anyone else's idle curiosity.

The accident took place only two weeks ago. It's unlikely there will be any major developments in the progress of the legal case for awhile. Until then, I'm not sure there is any point in continuing to re-hash the same few issues over and over again. I can wait to see what actually develops.

But, I am reasonably sure that Hawkeye and BillRM will continue their usual farcical dog and pony show, despite the lack of any new information, because, for them, this is all about their needs for attention, and for an audience, and that's unrelated to the topic, which is also why they can't stick to the topic of this particular drunk driving case, it simply wouldn't give them enough to talk about.









BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 02:08 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Neither Hawkeye nor BillRM has addressed the issue of drunk driving. They've avoided the most obvious aspect of this case--A man got into a car drunk and killed someone. And now he has to face the penalties for his actions.


Did alcohol in the man blood have anything at all to do with the cyclist death or not?


http://epautos.com/2011/01/25/because-its-the-law/

Because It’s “The Law”….
January 25, 2011By ericMost states now have mandatory”buckle up” seat belt laws. But – strangely, when you think about it – no state requires that a motorcyclist wear more than a helmet. So, on the one hand, you can’t legally ride around unbuckled inside an air bag-equipped 4,000 lb. steel cocoon. But you can legally ride a 170 mph sport bike wearing shorts, a t-shirt, no gloves or boots … so long as you’ve got a helmet on.

This isn’t an argument for mandatory “gear” laws. It’s just an observation about the inconsistency and arbitrariness of traffic laws.

Here are some more examples:

The legal threshold defining “drunk” driving continues to go down – it’s .08 BAC nationwide and groups such as Mothers Against Drunk Driving have been pushing for even lower standards, down to as little as .06 or even .04 BAC - yet it’s an established fact that most alcohol-related accidents involve drivers with BAC levels of .10 or higher. This has been well-known for years. But instead of focusing on the hard-core, problem drinkers who are responsible for almost all the booze-related accidents, the authorities spend more and more time trying to catch people with increasingly trace amounts of alcohol in their system who haven’t actually done any harm and who – for the most part – aren’t likely to cause any harm, based on the facts about who actually gets into accidents. This is why we have “sobriety checkpoints” – because otherwise, drivers with slight amounts of alcohol in their systems would mostly fly under the radar and not be identified by police because they don’t drive erratically or cause wrecks. Their only crime, arguably, is running afoul of an arbitrary (because it’s based on politics, not science) BAC threshold that’s as unreasonable as the old 55 mph National Maximum Speed Limit.
Meanwhile, another irony:

While the anti-drinking (anything, ever) crusade becomes ever shriller, few states do much to weed out Senile Citizens – who, unlike people with .04 or .06 BAC are in fact the most accident-prone group of drivers after teenagers. Or tailgaters – who do their thing with near-impunity.

When was the last time you heard about a massive police campaign to go after them? Tailgaters are everywhere; enforcement next to nil.

Instead, cops go after seatbelt scofflaws and people who run 5 mph faster than the speed limit – even though tailgating is always dangerous, by definition – while “speeding” isn’t and not wearing a seatbelt threatens no one else.

Edit by poster...........

Bottom line: Irrationality and arbitrariness is the defining characteristic of U.S. traffic law – and American law, generally. And arbitrary, irrational laws are a big part of what defines life in “Third World” countries – the banana republics we once sneered at but which we increasingly have much in common with.

Arbitrary laws punish Joe – but leave Jeff alone. Jeff likely has pull. So he runs under the radar. Joe hasn’t got a lobbyist in the legislature – or money to stuff the pol’s pockets with directly – so he gets targeted.

This is what it’s coming to. We see it all around us – from the four figure “abuser fees” that New Jersey and Virginia tried to impose that crucified motorists over relatively trivial traffic violations while people who commit physical assault get maybe a couple days in jail – suspended – and a much smaller fine – to the current “click or ticket” harassment campaigns that henpeck unbuckled drivers … while bikers only need to put a helmet on.

It’s enough to get your back up, if you think about it too much.

FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 03:21 pm
@BillRM,
Drink driving ......

You can come up with a million other things that are happening around the world that are un-related to the fact that... If you drink and drive, you are a fool...

Forget the laws..

You talk about minds? Imagine his mind, and how he will visualise killing someone for the rest of his life.

He drank (what ever level of alcohol was found to be the case), he drove... He was a fool...

Bring the law back? It's the reason why that law exists, to protect people from being killed, including himself but in this case, someone else...
Wildhourses
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 03:24 pm
@cs33717,
You’re drunk with Thom at the bar four nights out of the week! You sorry ass little bitch. The next time I see your sorry ass the only thing going up there will be my shoe!
MMarciano
 
  7  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 04:07 pm
@Wildhourses,
We're still not sure who your are but be nice here please.
Wildhourses
 
  3  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 04:40 pm
@MMarciano,
Sorry, this is Joe, Morgans friend form the salon he uses.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 04:50 pm
@MMarciano,
MMarciano wrote:

Oh grow up Carl. Rolling Eyes


I think Carl is under the influence of the green eyed monster.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:44 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
If you drink and drive, you are a fool...


Let see how about driving when you are very exhausted?

In long distance travel I had reached the point where I needed to pull the car off the roadway and sleep for a few hours as I stop being able keep the car in a lane!

How about cell phones or adjusting the radio or driving when you are emotionally upset? Hell I had a friend in high school who ended up having his brand new car trying to climb a telephone pole when he was fooling around with his girlfriend when driving.

Why should alcohol blood level be consider different from the all others non wise things to do when driving and single out for very harsh special punishment.
cs33717
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:48 pm
@chai2,
So who the hell are you?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:50 pm
@cs33717,
She's a sassy a2k poster with creds. Get used to her.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:51 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Why should alcohol blood level be consider different from the all others non wise things to do when driving and single out for very harsh special punishment.


Talk to your regulators about it.

In a number of jurisdictions all of those other factors result in charges related to distracted driving. So a driver messing around with his girlfriend and hitting a cyclist and killing them and leaving the scene would also be charged with three things - distracted driving/manslaughter/leaving the scene.

There is no difference in many Western jurisdictions.

Get on the case in your area if it means something/anything to you other than a point of argument.

In other words, walk the talk.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:54 pm
@cs33717,
Someone you'll have to learn to deal with if you come back again.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:49 pm
@cs33717,
cs33717 wrote:

So who the hell are you?


Nemo
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:50 pm
@chai2,
the fish, or the dude with the funny mustache?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:51 pm
@Rockhead,
Or lord, don't mention fish around that guy.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 07:15 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Why should alcohol blood level be consider different from the all others non wise things to do when driving and single out for very harsh special punishment.

Possibly because of the way alcohol affects the central nervous system of the driver and impairs concentration, judgment, coordination, visual acuity, reaction time, depth perception, and night vision? It is a central nervous system depressant. It's because of what alcohol does to the driver.

It also makes all those other unwise things a driver might do--speed, ignore traffic signs, go through stop signs and red lights, fail to signal or yield the right of way, make distracting cell phone calls, eat and drink, fiddle with a radio, etc. either more probable or all the worse in their effect on driving.

If you even have to ask that question, you really don't understand what this topic is about.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 07:48 pm
@ehBeth,
Sorry there is a separate under the law DUI manslaughter charge but no cell phone calling when driving manslaughter charge no driving when tired manslaughter or fooling around when driving manslaughter charges on the books.

There have to be some showing to get a manslaughter charge that for example driving tired relate to the death just to begin with and the conduct of driving in that condition was a case of gross negligent beside.

This automatic charge of manslaughter when an accident result in a death and the driver in over a very very arbitrary blood limit that was force on the states by the federate government beside is not logical.

It does not follow the law in how we deal with any other class of manslaughter charges.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 08:00 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
It does not follow the law in how we deal with any other class of manslaughter charges.


it does in other jurisdictions.

either do something about it or stop complaining
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Can a thread be removed or locked? - Question by BeachBoy
dui - Question by sylvia chomas
Drinking and Driving Tip.... - Discussion by Slappy Doo Hoo
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 06/17/2025 at 06:30:30