I just don’t understand drinking and driving

@ehBeth,

Quote:

the stats for the U.S. show that a lot of jail space is taken up by people unable to mount bail. There are people who have been charged with DUI/manslaughter within those numbers...I'd suggest agreeing that he was right on that point.

But, I think what DrewDad said was that only a "tiny minority" of the total number of people arrested for DUI manslaughter might be unable to post bail. I don't know whether he is wrong about that, do you?

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@firefly,

Quote:

Most simple DUI cases do not require any bail--the person is most often released ROR, Release On Own Recognizance.
Bail would only be set in a DUI when there is reason to suspect that the person would not show up for court appearances.

My silly friend this thread had been center on a case of DUI manslaughter with a charge of leaving the scene thrown from the very start by the author of this thread not simple first time DUI cases so if you wish to complain about not being on tropic that complain should be directed at the majority of posters on this thread including the author of this thread.

But we all know that you have no real complain about being off tropic your real complain is in having your ass handed to you on this thread.

1 Reply

@firefly,

I looked into it. I suggest you either look into it or agree that BillRM was correct on the particular point he was making.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

My silly friend this thread had been center on...

I really suggest you knock off your patronizing, "My silly friend..." crap. When you are making over-generalized, and often inaccurate, statements that bear little relevance to the case we are discussing, you are hardly in a position to patronize anyone.

The fact remains that bail is set by a judge, and the purpose of that bail is to help insure that the defendant will make court appearances. The more serious the charges, or the more suspicion there is of flight risk, the higher that bail is likely to be.

The judge is considered an impartial party when rendering the bail decision. Your assertion that bail amounts are set high to force plea agreements ignores the fact that judges have no vested interest in forcing a plea--the judge who sets bail doesn't care whether the defendant takes a plea or goes to trial--and your inaccurate and unsubstantiated comments in this regard unfairly impugn the integrity of judges.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

But, I think what DrewDad said was that only a "tiny minority" of the total number of people arrested for DUI manslaughter might be unable to post bail. I don't know whether he is wrong about that, do you?

that wasn't what he said - he did not bring DUI manslaughter into that - he objected to BillRM's reference to the volume of people who are in jail simply because they can't meet bail (and some of those are quite low amounts of bail as they are related to low-level offences).

BillRM must be an NPR listener

http://www.npr.org/series/122954677/behind-the-bail-bond-system

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

The judge is considered an impartial party when rendering the bail decision. Your assertion that bail amounts are set high to force plea agreements ignores the fact that judges have no vested interest in forcing a plea--the judge who sets bail doesn't care whether the defendant takes a plea or goes to trial--and your inaccurate and unsubstantiated comments in this regard unfairly impugn the integrity of judges.

NPR and a number of studies I've just been reading disagree with you.

The bail bondsmen seem to have a pretty powerful lobby group.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

The bail bondsmen seem to have a pretty powerful lobby group.

That does not mean that they affect the integrity of judges who render bail decisions.

That does not mean that judges cannot render impartial bail decisions based on their appraisal of the situation re future flight risks/court appearances--as presented to them by both the prosecutor and the defense.

Bail bondsman would like to see everyone out on bail--that's how they earn their living.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

That does not mean that judges cannot render impartial bail decisions

they can.

I am not as trusting that they are immune to political pressure.

http://www.judicialselection.us/

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

I am not as trusting that they are immune to political pressure.

Based on the judges I have actually known well, I am trusting in their integrity.

And the bail discussion takes place in an open public courtroom, with the defense attorney present. The matter is open to scrutiny if a judge consistently rules in a manner that indicates bias.

I don't feel the bail was unreasonable in the case we have been discussing, and the defendant was able to post that bail.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

of the total number of people arrested for DUI manslaughter might be unable to post bail. I don't know whether he is wrong about that, do you?

In that is some strange feelings of his with nothing to back it up that seem both a worthless claim on it face.

The jails are full up with over 50 percents of their population with people who could not post bail and DUI manslaughter is not a minor charge so I see not reason to assume that for that one charge most people can raised bail.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

The judge is considered an impartial party when rendering the bail decision

Right and I am the king of the universe as the judges need to act in a manner to keep the system functioning and if 90 percents of people did not go to trial but plea out the system would melt down.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

DUI manslaughter is not a minor charge so I see not reason to assume that for that one charge most people can raised bail.

For one thing, you are generally dealing with people who can afford to own a car, pay for auto insurance, gas, etc., so you are not dealing with the truly indigent. It is also a charge on which many middle class people get arrested--something that is not true with many other serious felonies.

And, in the case we are discussing, the defendant did post his $120,000 bail, rather quickly. He is not sitting in jail.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Right and I am the king of the universe as the judges need to act in a manner to keep the system functioning and if 90 percents of people did not go to trial but plea out the system would melt down.

The system keeps functioning because people keep getting arrested, and most of those arrested are guilty as charged, particularly in the case of DUI, which is why they are only too happy to accept a plea which offers them a less harsh penalty and/or less severe charges.

You seem to ignore the distinct possibility that most people arrested might be guilty as charged--particuarly in DUI mansaughter/leaving the scene. And that's why Thom is probably hoping for a decent plea deal.

2 Replies

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Based on the judges I have actually known well, I am trusting in their integrity.

I'll match my anecdotal evidence (and the research) against your anecdotal evidence.

~~~

BillRM is simply right about this one thing. There are many people are in US jails because they cannot meet the bail demand.

The evidence is that the bail demands are not always reasonable. Read the NPR pieces - do some other reading on the subject. There is a reason that groups like JusticeWatch and Human Rights Watch are researching this - the U.S. justice/prison system has become an industry.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

The system keeps functioning

the U.S. system is functioning as an industry. It's not functioning terribly well as a justice system.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

There are many people are in US jails because they cannot meet the bail demand.

I'm not denying that. But that's because indigent and poorer defendants are at a disadvantage in that regard.

But most people arrested on DUI related offenses are more likely to be middle class people with resources and assets, and, like the defendant we have been discussing in this thread, they could post bail.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

It's not functioning terribly well as a justice system.

In the case of DUI related offenses I believe it functions well.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

But most people arrested on DUI related offenses are more likely to be middle class people with resources and assets

have you got any evidence of that?

~~~

the research suggests the opposite

http://safetrec.berkeley.edu/newsletter/Summer03/DUIHistory.html

Quote:

His study also found that lower socio-economic status also tends to correlate positively with the chances that someone will drive while under the influence.

~~~

interesting

just did a little more research

your reference group must be white or perhaps Hispanic

http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/NNBCYL.pdf

this piece also talks about who is arrested

the first link addresses who is drinking and driving, the second (older) link addresses the arrests

DUI - disproportionately - poor and black

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@jcboy,

If you just opened last week it's still good, give him hell cutie! Wink

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@ehBeth,

Over here you're either granted bail or held on remand based on flight risk, liklihood of witness intimidation and the seriousness of the crime. Money rarely comes into it.

2 Replies

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

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