I just don’t understand drinking and driving

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

reasonably intelligent people who present facts

Most of what you and BillRM have presented are opinions....

This post from you is especially funny, since it's a reply to a post that has actual facts in it.

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@BillRM,

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Sorry but to this day I can remember getting out of my sick bed and driving to take final exams.

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Strangely I did not do bad on those exams.

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so a college age young man is irresponsible in getting out of a sick bed and driving 30 miles or so in winter weather in order to be sure that ten thousands or so commuters can get to their work on time?

Seems to me, you don't remember at all why you got out of your sick bed there Bill ! Which one was it? For exams, or for work Wink

Both, irresponsible.

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As I said before, on this thread, lack of sleep had degraded my driving\\LOL

Lol's. Is it funny? And, so now you admit that getting up at 4am in the morning to go to work with "lack of sleep" degraded your driving. Irresponsible.

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When I was a railorad employee it was my obligation to get to work no matter what the weather conditions happen to be or how sick I might be.

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Having a few mile and a half frieght trains and passengers trains with thousands of people onboard waiting for train orders or block signals is not acceptable.

No, it was your employers responsibility to have a back up person, on call, at all times in the event that one of his employees was "too sick" to work. Risk Management. What Boss, is not going to have someone including himself/herself, to fill in in the event that an employee is sick. If you drove 30 trains in one day, then I imagine, that boss had others driving as well. No employer reliable to take 10's of thousands of people to and from work is only going to have one employee to do the job and no backup. Money made you do it. You know it and I know it.

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When I was flying my ultralight for fun and enjoyment I could limit my flying only when feeling my very best and under ideal weather conditions however somehow I do not think that privilege cover commerce pilots including the ones that will be piloting the next jet liner you take.

Exactly, because there was no money involved.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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Lol's. Is it funny? And, so now you admit that getting up at 4am in the morning to go to work with "lack of sleep" degraded your driving. Irresponsible.

So only if you are in ideal repeat ideal shape to drive should you drive?

Is that you silly position Found Soul?

Given that most people most of the time are not at an ideal state for driving then most people should not be driving most of the time.......?

God how silly can you be as the whole society would grind to a halt under your theory.

You are amazing and are using amazing logic and no you are not being irresponsible if you drive at less then your ideal state and we all do it most of the time.

There is a bell curve for all of us concerning driving abilities and most of the area under that curve cover acceptable driving skills levels and as long as you in that area you are not being irresponsible in driving.

Lord we have silly silly people on this website.........

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@BillRM,

Rest my case.

All you could answer to was one portion of that post. Not accepting responsibilities that your whole take on the matter is illogical, in-correct and all over the place..

Just accept you are / were irresponsible.

Calling people silly, or idiots is childs game.

I thought I was writing to someone older than me, not younger.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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Exactly, because there was no money involved

Money? you do have a hang up on money it would seems however in the one case it was a college semester of work carrying 21 credit hours of taking hard courses at stake and in the other it was my obligation to my employer to be sure I was not the reason that ten thousands people in roughly thirty passengers trains are not late for work and a few freight trains with hundred of freight cars get where they need to be in as timely a manner as possible.

In neither case do I remember caring about money...............

As far as the ultralight is concern that was purchase for enjoyment and have no connection with meeting any obligation to either myself or to others.

So let replace the word money you are so hung up on with the word obligation as that would be far more correct.

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@BillRM,

But, you were the "employee"...earning "income".....

The obligation was not yours. It was that of your employers.

Like how you aren't answering anything further... Intelligently, rather, taking a word (money) and trying to justify it...

The "fun" sides of things did not involve, well money.. Just thought I'd throw that word out again.

And, there, you "chose" not to drive... Funny about that.

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

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Not accepting responsibilities

LOL it was responsibilities that got me out of a nice warm bed both of those times once to myself and one to a great many others who whether they knew it or not was depending on me to do my job sick or not sick.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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The obligation was not yours. It was that of your employers.

Sorry but it is my obligation to do my best to do the job that the NYLBRR was trusting me to do.

It had zero to do with a day pay...............

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@BillRM,

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LOL it was responsibilities that got me out of a nice warm bed both of those times one to myself and one to a great many others who whether they knew it was depending on me to do my job sick or not sick.

No way, it was Money & Education, your own needs, the need to pass the exam:)

Although I still don't know which one was it, nor will you answer, you kind of got caught with your pants down there.. Now, you are trying to claim it was both in different situations. That's ok, I accept that, that's even better. Both times you drove with a "flu" not sure which one came with the feeling sick and throwing up, ie) work or exams, but you drove both times, knowing you were too ill to drive. Irresponsible.

It was for your own needs Bill....

You were not the employer. He had others that could have taken over, you know it and I know it.

You wanted to pass your exam, so you chose to drive sick and vomit, not watching the road as you could or would had you have been ok to drive.

That's irresponsible.

Full stop.,

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@FOUND SOUL,

Sure dear I am 63 years old and there been more then one time or two times for that matter when I needed to drive when it was not an enjoyable thing to do.

You would not believed the weather conditions I had driven in over the years to meet obligations for example.

Snowing so hard you could hardly see out of the car window or so damn foggy that you needed to be on top of the car in front to see his tail lights.

But you seems not to understand obligations be those obligations to your future or to your employer or to a friend.

It not fun to be call in to work when you are sick or on Christmas day for that matter, to deal with a situation that need to be deal with.

I feel a little sorry for you that you do not understand such a simple concept as that concept allow you to live in a society that have the infrastructure to support the internet so you can post such silliness.

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@BillRM,

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Sure dear I am 63 years old and there been more then one time or two times for that matter when I needed to drive when it was not an enjoyable thing to do

I find the word "dear" to be condescending. You're only 14 years older than me, consequently not old enough to be my Father, so keep dear in your pockets.

Your point? I would not think there is one single person alive that hasn't driven when they didn't really want to do so..

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You would not believed the weather conditions I had driven in over the years to meet obligations for example.

Snowing so hard you could hardly see out of the car window or so damn foggy that you needed to be on top of the car in front to see his tail lights.

I do know what weather conditions can be like. I've driven in it. And, pulled over... If you are late, if you can't get there, there is a valid reason no?

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But you seems not to understand obligations be those obligations to your future or to your employer or to a friend.

I am an employer. Have been one for 20 years. My staff over those years, would ring me and let me know that they were sick. They were told to stay at home. I had/have an obligation to people, whether they are staff, or patrons and I covered their position. That is obligations. I've also obviously attended courses, last one at 40 for a Business Diploma, I was sick one day, and so I rang and got an extention... We are human and humans understand illness, if legit.. That is an obligation to those that would have been at that course, sitting next to me... And, friends are friends for a reason. They understand if you are ill.

You miss the point. And, frankly I am just repeating myself over and over.

Driving a train, ill, with 10's of thousands of people, unable to concentrate propertly puts those lives at risk. Driving a motor vehicle, wanting to vomit, and vomitting, not being able to concentrate as you usually would have been able to could have put someones life at risk..

I've been wrong many a time in my life. At least I admit it when I realise it.

At 63, lets hope you would be more sensible in todays day and age and not be a risk taker for the purpose of either "feeling" obligated which you shouldn't have as there would have been a back-up driver, or the "teachers" would have excused you to do the test again, and be sensible and not put other peoples lives at risk.

After all, isn't this basically what this whole thread is about?

I'm not repeating myself anymore. You've admitted you drove on occasions, extremely tired, sick, vomitting and won't admit it was wrong to do so.

You're just lucky you didn't hit anyone, or kill anyone... You got away with it, that's all.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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You were not the employer. He had others that could have taken over, you know it and I know it.

Let me see after waking up and feeling sick I call in to Long Branch NJ and talk to the chief dispatcher on duty to tell him that I am not going to be at that tower in time to clear out the night sand train and such so the thirty passengers trains running five to ten minute apart into New York have clear tracks.

Now this man had a few hundreds miles of some of the busiest tracks in the country to deal with and the pressure on him had resulted in more then one of them having nerves break downs over the years.

So he reached for one of his roll desk looking for agent operators that had been check out for that tower and is not working somewhere else.

He then reach for the phone and begin calling those phone numbers in the early AM hours.

Now I was 30 miles away myself from that tower and it even odds whether my replacement is nearer or farther then that 30 miles.

OK problem solve no not at all as you need a set of special keys to work that tower and one set is with me and another set is in the dispatcher office in the town of Long Branch that is it memory serve me correctly is 15 miles south of the tower in question.

So the guy is going to have to get to Long Branch first to picked up a set of keys and then drive to the Red Bank tower.

Odd are that those trains are going to be delay getting through the freight yard and perhaps having all of the passengers trains trap behind a very slow freight full of cars loaded with sand until there is a siding long enough to get that mile plus freight train off the main line.

in other word it is likely to be a mess............

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@FOUND SOUL,

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You were not the employer. He had others that could have taken over, you know it and I know it.

But BillRM won't admit that. He never admits when he is wrong. He'll just go on making excuses for his irresponsible behavior.

The job he was talking about was a summer job he had as a college student--the weight of the world, and the responsibility of mankind was not resting on his tiny shoulders and his ability to get to work. Of course there were others who could have filled in for him when he was ill. He couldn't possibly have been the only person employed by the railroad who could do the job. There is no job that doesn't allow sick time, and which doesn't have others who can fill in if a job absolutely must be done.

And none of his excuses explain why he couldn't have taken a taxi, rather than drive in an impaired condition for that one day he felt very sick--he said he was making good money.

He was irresponsible to drive when feeling very ill. You are right.

We aren't talking about driving in terrible weather, which I have also done when I needed to get to work. I just drive very slowly and carefully under such conditions. But my driving skills and abilities aren't impaired by extreme fatigue, or physical illness, when I drive in poor weather, I'm able to handle the bad weather and road conditions precisely because I'm not impaired by anything.

And he's also told us he's driven when extremely fatigued, extremely emotionally upset etc., so driving when feeling very ill physically is just another instance of his own, personal, irresponsible driving habits. And then he tries to claim that everyone drives in some impaired state or other, which is not true. Some people take the responsibility of driving much more seriously than others. The reponsibility to get to work does not trump the responsibility to be in an alert, attentive, non-distracted, non-phyically ill condition, when driving a car.

Why BillRM likes to boast about his own irresponsible driving, by telling us about it, is anyone's guess. But he does choose to tell us about it, and then he gets defensive and denies he was irresponsible, and comes up with all sorts of excuses to justify his actions, if people make negative comments. He's done that, in other threads, with regard to other behaviors on his part, and then he can't understand why others jump to certain negative conclusions about what sort of person he is. It's because he's the one who opens the door to that sort of reaction with the things he chooses to talk about regarding himself.

So don't expect him to admit he's an irresponsible driver, Found Soul.

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After all, isn't this basically what this whole thread is about?

You are right on target with that, FS. It's about the need to drive reponsibly, and the tragic consequences that can result if you don't do that.

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@firefly,

Yes it was very very responsibility job for a college student,

Most of those college students came from railroad families with brothers and fathers and uncles and so on being full time RR employees who needed to be willing to sticked their necks out to get this very high paying job for you. You surely did not do the career of your sponsor any good if you crash and burn however.

Still there is not too many jobs where for example it was common to have a twenty something summer employees running a ticket office by himself taking in up to 10,000 dollars a day in 1960s funds and then balancing the books and taking the cash to the bank.

On the side every once in a while you needed to take and give train orders.

Zero supervision once you have some short training course with another agent.

Normally they did not placed you in a tower or similar situation before you had prove yourself over a few summer tours however

The more I think about it the more amazing it is how well this system work as there was not too many of those college students that needed to be fired.

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@firefly,

In fact, Firefly when I let NJ to move to Miami to start my engineering career I was very proud that the Chief Dispatcher [the operational head of the railroad] beside giving me a very nice letter of recommendation send me a personal letter telling me that he would be more the willing to hired me back anytime I wish to work for him again.

Oh the letter of recommendation cover the fact that I was not only very reliable but I did not need any supervision and mostly had work without it in very responsible positions.

The poor guy when he reached the age where he was entitle to retire however they talked him into needing him for a few more years and once he did get to retired he sadly die within months.

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@firefly,

You know Firefly you are an old evil woman but you and Found Soul had brought some very nice memories back to the surface even if some of those memories have me getting out of a sick bed in the middle of winter and driving 30 miles to a very cold tower.

I been lucky as I had always work with people who mainly also care about getting the job done without needing to be the owner as Found Soul think is a needed condition to care one way or another.

A paycheck is very important but it is not the only motivator and in fact it is not always the most important motivator in a work place.

In fact I feel kind of sad for Found Soul if she only care about the well being of a business that support her if she is the owner.

Of course the billion dollar family own business I ended up working for most of my working life had owners who did not view employees in the manner Found Soul does.

One co-worker of mine who was about to lose her home had the owners bail her out in secret just because she was a thirty years plus employee and she had ask them for help.

When the founders die and the business was sold three hundred millions dollars was set aside from the purchase price to be given to the employees base not on their positions in the company but on just how long they had work for the two brothers.

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@BillRM,

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You know Firefly you are an old evil woman but you and Found Soul had brought some very nice memories back to the surface even if some of those memories have me getting out of a sick bed in the middle of winter and driving 30 miles to a very cold tower.

You wish to group us two "women" together, got a feeling you've been walked all over by them, most if not all of your life. Have a problem with women not being bare foot, pregnant and in the kitchen their whole lives?

Irresponsibly. I'm not getting the violin out and playing it for you.

And, I've walked the streets collecting money for the poor, for a small wage, to keep me going with food in my stomach.. We do what ever we have to do whether we like the job or not. For me, knowing I was raising money for the poor, even though it was 20hrs of walking in all sorts of weather, I chose that position just as you chose to work in a cold tower.. Because you needed either to survive as you had no other qualifications or there was no other jobs available, or you chose it because you wanted that career.... And, it was income, money... You chose to drive that day, for it.

You gave some long drawn out argument of all that the employer would have had to have gone through and the delays, had you not have worked. That means you worked for an irresponsible employer who never had a back-up or he told you all of those things to make you feel you had no choice. How sad either way.. You still drove. That has nothing to do with "how you got there".

Mind you, I thought it was to get to an exam... that you drove. Oh that's right it was both... Fond memory of how sick you were, having to get out of a warm bed and drive to pass a test... Motive for sure. Action was reckless and dangerous.

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I been lucky as I had always work with people who mainly also care about getting the job done without needing to be the owner as Found Soul think is a needed condition to care one way or another.

You're an idiot. Who said I "need" to get the job done, only as an owner...

I'm an owner because I've worked my azz off all my life to achieve what ever it is I wanted to achieve, with passion and dedication.. I worked as a volunteer for Service to Youth, (street kids...) I worked in Hospitality ,seems you have forgotten and made my way up to Management through skill and hard work.. Caring for my staff, caring for my patrons and caring for my employer... Now I work for myself, caring for my clients, supporting them, advising them, assisting them and ensuring they are stress free at all times through the process...and yet again, love my work with a passion.

I volunteer for someone else who owns a Forum and I volunteer my time, as well as wisdom to "help" people and I don't make a cent.

Sounds to me that you are jealous that I, Firefly and I am suprised not Hawkeye, oh no I am not, he's a male, want to use our skills including caring for people and helping them by being owners, risk takers, and volunteers, knowing who we wanted to be in life and going for it... Instead, of working in a cold tower and settling....

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Of course the billion dollar family own business I ended up working for most of my working life had owners who did not view employees in the manner Found Soul does.

Yep, I can hear the resentment. You made your life, that was your choice...

I haven't even once, stated how I treat employees, what I have done for them personally..

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When the founders die and the business was sold three hundred millions dollars was set aside from the purchase price to be given to the employees base not on their positions in the company but on just how long they had work for the two brothers.

And, how much "bonus" did you get for working for them, most of your life Bill.

And, what exactly did you do with the money....

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

Sounds to me that you are jealous that I, Firefly and I am suprised not Hawkeye, oh no I am not, he's a male, want to use our skills including caring for people and helping them by being owners, risk takers, and volunteers, knowing who we wanted to be in life and going for it.

holy hell! you do realize I hope that saying something nice about me is grounds to throw you out of the A2K cool kids club.....

sorry to have vacated this thread temporarily...my restaurant has been kicking my butt, been very busy. my goal is to make myself expendable, to train the right people well so that the place runs fine without me, but we have been stretched of late so I have been spending all day every day pitching in and fixing problems. unusually I have no energy or interest in arguing right now.

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@hawkeye10,

If I can't be myself hawkeye, I dun wanna be someone else, I'm here to be me regardless who likes me or not Wink

I cracked up laughing though at that, I was thinking "holy hell batman" or something just out of a movie haha.

You forgot to add, and keep promoting and rewarding them for their efforts Wink

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@FOUND SOUL,

You'd think Bill would give up after he's been shown up here so many times...

The guy's a glutton for punishment, I guess.

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I just don’t understand drinking and driving

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