43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 04:48 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
You should look into that course above but then it is unlikely that you can understand such concepts as Ad hominem attacks

You seem to have learned a new term "ad hominem" and, like everything else you do, you are using it compulsively, in post after post, and not using it entirely accurately to boot.

When used in an abusive way, an ad hominem attack can point out a genuine character flaw in the other person--it's simply irrelevant to an argument, but it can be quite accurate in describing the other person, as is the case when I call you an idiot, or others call you an asshole, or a creep, or a moron.

And you use abusive ad hominem attacks on others, particularly me, all the time. One of your favorites is to call me "dishonest" because you can't refute what I've said, or, in some instances, even comprehend what I've said.
Quote:
Even Firefly who mounts such attacks far more smoothly then you do end up looking like a fool with no arguments that she had any faith can hold up on their own worth.

Well, it's a little hard to decipher the meaning of that statement, given its lack of coherency, but I think I can safely say that I am more than capable of making an argument that can hold up on its own merits, without having to insult you as a way to defend my point of view or discredit yours. I insult you because I find you offensive. Plain and simple.

You get insulted, quite regularly, by a good number of people at A2K, and it is not because it is a way of trying to advance an argument. You get insulted because your often boorish behavior invites insult. You ask for it. And, you, quite honestly, deserve it.




fire not that you probably care but +10 respect points. 8)
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 05:30 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
Quote:
I never plan to drink and drive but this has given me another reason not to do it.


Here reasons never to have sex from a WW2 military film concerning VD enjoy.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 05:36 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
fire not that you probably care but +10 respect points. 8)


So you are into old she devils to each his or her own....LOL
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 05:43 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
fire not that you probably care but +10 respect points. 8)


So you are into old she devils to each his or her own....LOL


She made a good point Bill. An adhom is not just a simple personal attack. The only time it becomes a fallacy is when the person says, "You are wrong because you are an idiot." If they just call you an idiot, that doesn't make an adhom. There is a subtle but distinct difference. Hard for some people to pick out perhaps?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 05:53 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
The only time it becomes a fallacy is when the person says, "You are wrong because you are an idiot." If they just call you an idiot, that doesn't make an adhom. There is a subtle but distinct difference. Hard for some people to pick out perhaps?


No you are wrong because you must be a drunk if you dare to have that opinion on the BAC limt for DUI being too low or you must be a child porn collecter for daring to express the opinion that the current federal guide lines for having CP is too harsh.

Now my opinion that she is a piece of work is not an Ad hominen attack due to my opinion is not base on her defensing the current BAC level but her actions toward others who dare to disagree with her on almost any subject.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 06:35 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
No you are wrong because you must be a drunk if you dare to have that opinion on the BAC limt for DUI being too low or you must be a child porn collecter for daring to express the opinion that the current federal guide lines for having CP is too harsh.


Bill if you have been following this thread, I think I pretty much have the most "extreme" view concerning drinking and driving, even though I don't consider my view that extreme. I look for consistency in the law. If you are going to punish people for "potentially" causing harm then you need to be consistent with it and punish everyone because we always have the potential to cause harm at any moment.

People don't want the law to be consistent nor logical. They want laws to reflect their emotional response to a problem. They lose a loved one or friend to a drunk driver and want laws that persecute those who drink and drive but cause no harm. How is that justice? It's not. It's making a police state where people are convicted on the sole potential to cause harm.

I say the law is too soft on those who cause harm when drinking and driving. I think the punishment should be much more severe but at the same time I do not agree that we should punish those who drink and drive and cause no harm. We should wait until they actually cause harm before we convict them of a crime. We all know it doesn't solve the problem to punish a person for drinking and driving.

People do it anyways, but the government makes billions of dollars on these cases and clogs up the courts with non-harm court cases. The government really doesn't care about drinking and driving, they see it as a cash cow and by lowering the BAC would only make more revenue for the government and more people in jail and society more poor.

If people were really concerned about lives we would ban the use of automobiles all together. There are more people killed by sober drivers every year than those who are drunk. Why is that not an issue? Because we assume the responsibility because people demand the ability to drive a car under their own ability. Where is the consistency? People don't care about consistency in the law or the logic.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 06:55 pm
@Krumple,
My background tend to make me view the world in a logical way and if drive me crazy when there are feel goods laws that often end up causing more harm then good such as in my opinion this BAC of .08.

First there is no sharp and clear border line where a BAC level should be criminal or not criminal and my problem with a .08 limit is that any driving impairment from that level of drinking is similar to driving while doing a lot of others things that degrade driving skills to that degree that is not criminal such as in my state talking on a cell phone, driving while missing a night sleep, driving while emotionaly upset or not feeling well or...............

Next using resources to look for low level BAC drivers by check points tied up a lot of police manpower that could be out on patroling the roadways looking for the real danger those who are at BAC high enough to be detected by that person driving manner down the highway.

Removing one driver from the highway that is 1.5 or higher is reducing the risk of accidents or deaths by as must as taking 20 to 40 low level BAC drivers off the highway

Of course as you stated the .08 check point drivers are a large cash cow to the state.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:03 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

My background tend to make me view the world in a logical way and if drive me crazy when there are feel goods laws that often end up causing more harm then good such as in my opinion this BAC of .08.

First there is no sharp and clear border line where a BAC level should be criminal or not criminal and my problem with a .08 limit is that any driving impairment from that level of drinking is similar to driving while doing a lot of others things that degrade driving skills to that degree that is not criminal such as in my state talking on a cell phone, driving while missing a night sleep, driving while emotionaly upset or not feeling well or...............

Next using resources to look for low level BAC drivers by check points tied up a lot of police manpower that could be out on patroling the roadways looking for the real danger those who are at BAC high enough to be detected by that person driving manner down the highway.

Removing one driver from the highway that is 1.5 or higher is reducing the risk of accidents or deaths by as must as taking 20 to 40 low level BAC drivers off the highway

Of course as you stated the .08 check point drivers are a large cash cow to the state.


Why not go extreme with the law? I'm sure people would adjust. Why not make it if you drink and drive and someone dies as a result of an accident caused by the drinking and driving, you also lose your life? I guess you could say an eye for an eye, even though I don't like that type of mentality, it makes sense.

If you are not considerate enough to find a safe way home after drinking then you should forfeit your life if you deprive someone else of theirs in the process. It makes logical sense. However; it does not make sense to me to convict and punish those who drive drunk and cause no accidents or harm.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:30 pm
@Krumple,
Why drinking and not other things that degrade driving?

Howabout someone who work all day and then hung around a bar or a party drinking diet cokes and then drove home at 4 am and were so tired from lack of sleep he kill someone on the way home.

Why is drinking deserve some special punishment for doing so but not others things just as dangerous as having a few drinks.

Next you have the task of showing that whatever drinking was done was the primany cause of the death unless you picked some BAC level out of the air and declare any death with a blood level is going to be assume the cause of the death.

Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:41 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Why drinking and not other things that degrade driving?

Howabout someone who work all day and then hung around a bar or a party drinking diet cokes and then drove home at 4 am and were so tired from lack of sleep he kill someone on the way home.

Why is drinking deserve some special punishment for doing so but not others things just as dangerous as having a few drinks.

Next you have the task of showing that whatever drinking was done was the primany cause of the death unless you picked some BAC level out of the air and declare any death with a blood such a level is going to be assume the cause of the death.


Well you do bring up a great point. I agree with you in a way. However; I worry about how such cases are handled. If the case has proven for a fact that the person exercised poor judgment and caused a fatality due to that poor judgement (such as you suggest, driving while tired/sleepy or not paying attention/disctraction/texting, ect.) Then of course the law should be consistent and the conviction should suggest that they do forfeit their life if a life is lost.

We need harsh laws so that people just might take it into consideration. I think people don't consider other's lives because there is nothing that gives other people value. Making punishments harsh is one attempt at providing value to other people's lives. If a person causes someone to lose their life because of their poor judgement or negligence then they should forfeit their own life.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:50 pm
@Krumple,
In other words let's write the laws as if we were Gods, for whom every action is the perfect representation of our will.

Humans make mistakes, we are failable, the law which does not take this into consideration is inhumane.

Your willingness to beat heavily on humans for one bad act is babaric.
BeachBoy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:51 pm
The drunken bitch is loaded off his ass again, poor pitiful Thom,
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

In other words let's write the laws as if we were Gods, for whom every action is the perfect representation of our will.

Humans make mistakes, we are failable, the law which does not take this into consideration is inhumane.

Your willingness to beat heavily on humans for one bad act is babaric.


I find it funny when you only want to look at it from the perspective of the person who fucked up. What about those people who die from that one person's **** up? You are not giving the victim enough consideration. We should consider both.

I hold personal responsibility over that of any life. If you are not taking into account your own personal duty towards other's lives then you do not value anyone else's life. If that is the case then why should anyone else value your life?

We need a system that imposing the need for people to take responsibility for their choices and if they neglect to, then the punishment should be harsh.

I understand people make mistakes but many mistakes can be avoided if they were to just take into consideration other people first. Most people do not value anyone else's life unless they are family members. If they are not related they don't give a ****. I say this is a bad system to have.

We need a system where people are forced to take into consideration other's lives equal to that of their own. The only way to do this is to say, if you deprive someone else of their life due to your negligence then you forfeit your own. Once people realize this is how it is going to be, they just might take other's lives into consideration before they do things.
BeachBoy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 08:05 pm
@Krumple,
**** you pitiful bitch!
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 08:06 pm
@BeachBoy,
BeachBoy wrote:

**** you pitiful bitch!


Oh look, I have another fan. Nice to meet you.
0 Replies
 
BeachBoy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 08:22 pm
Thom is drunk off his nelly ass tonight.
0 Replies
 
BeachBoy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 08:28 pm
We celebrating bitch,
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 08:33 pm
@BeachBoy,
BeachBoy wrote:

We celebrating bitch,


I couldn't care any less what you think of me. In fact it is actually a compliment that you think I am a bitch. You don't realize that and it becomes a source of amusement for me.
BeachBoy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 08:47 pm
@Krumple,
Not if you had a life of your own honey.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 09:06 pm
@BeachBoy,
BeachBoy wrote:

Not if you had a life of your own honey.


Still funny that you think you are getting somewhere with your comments.
0 Replies
 
 

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