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What is the maximum safe injection of "Salmonella fluid"?

 
 
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2011 04:46 pm
Hi:

'Salmonella fluid' is a theoretical liquid that consists solely of pure water and live cells of bacteria in the Salmonella genus. This liquid has the same viscosity of healthy human blood and contains an equal amount of each and every species and subspecies of Salmonella.

For the sake of curiosity and experimentation I hook myself up to an IV drip system which ultimately transports this "Salmonella fluid" into the vein of my left wrist. What is the maximum amount of this fluid that can be injected into my bloodstream while still allowing me to survive? Assume I'm the average 28-year-old male human.

How would I safely attempt this experiment in real-life?

Thanks,

GX
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 1,649 • Replies: 8
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Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2011 06:03 pm
@Green Xenon,
Well, you could just try it and then report the results back to us.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2011 08:00 pm
@Green Xenon,
Considering bacteria reproduce, it's hard to say. According to the medical literature as few as 200 bacteria can cause infection.

Quote:
Studies involving healthy human volunteers required a median dose of 1 million bacteria to produce disease. However, point outbreaks suggest as few as 200 bacteria may produce nontyphoid gastroenteritis.
That is for ingested bacteria which has to contend with stomach acid.
http://www.medicinenet.com/salmonella/page4.htm

You are proposing to inject 2500 different types of Salmonella directly into your blood stream which can cause sepsis.

But morbidity is your real question..
Quote:
Mortality/Morbidity

Twenty percent of patients require hospitalization, with an estimated death rate of 0.6%.[15] Infection with drug-resistant nontyphoid Salmonella and Salmonella typhi increase the likelihood of hospitalization and death.[15]

Invasive nontyphoid Salmonella infection occurs in about 5% of cases in Israel[15] and is responsible for 400-600 deaths in the United States each year[5] . Mortality for nontyphoid Salmonell a is reported to be as high as 60% in African patients with HIV.[16] Mycotic abdominal aortic aneurysms are more common in immunocompromised and HIV patients.

Treated typhoid cases have a 2% mortality rate with a 15% relapse rate.[3] A significant number of typhoid patients become chronic asymptomatic carriers and can shed high numbers of bacteria in the stool for a lifetime without obvious symptoms.[16] Depending on the serotype, roughly 1% of adults and 5% of children excrete organisms for greater than a year.[18]


Are you going to get medical treatment?
You can assume a small injection could leave you with a 20% chance of needing medical treatment for EACH of the 2500 serotypes. With a .6% morbidity rate for each serotype, and more for certain ones, 1 million of each serotype pretty much guarantees death without medical treatment.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2011 08:24 pm
@Green Xenon,
How do you propose to get more then 2300 strains of salmonella to perform this insanely suicidal experiment?

http://www.csrees.usda.gov/newsroom/impact/2008/nri/11121_salmonella.html
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Green Xenon
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2011 10:25 pm
@parados,
Let's say I do get medical treatment but excluding antibiotics. What are my chances of survival?
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2011 05:14 am
@Green Xenon,
I don't think we have enough information on the various biologies in play to predict the result. I feel the same about most of your posts. Not only are individuals different, and not only are conditions variable, but even the theoretically pure "standards" are so complex in their interactions that I don't think any of your speculations are answerable. And as such, I don't even think they are interesting science questions. The answers are meaningless, untestable and have no known merit. Why do you ask these type of questions?
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parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 04:33 pm
@Green Xenon,
I would say zero if you inject enough bacteria to cause infection.

One of the strains of Salmonella causes typhus which untreated can have a morbidity rate of 60% in the elderly, morbidity of 10-40% in the general population.

By injecting the bacteria into the blood rather than ingesting it you risk sepsis.
Quote:
In sepsis, blood pressure drops, resulting in shock. Major organs and body systems, including the kidneys, liver, lungs, and central nervous system, stop working properly.

Without antibiotics, sepsis probably has a morbidity rate of 100%.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 04:40 pm
@parados,
You're such a party pooper parados! Rolling Eyes

I bet you came in here just itching to spoil the OP's fun. Razz
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2011 04:55 pm
@tsarstepan,
If he goes through with this, I think the Dr's treating him might have fun, or at least an unsuspected challenge.
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