What is Real?

@Rickoshay75,

Rickoshay75 wrote:

There are three different kinds of real. philosophical, perceptive and practical.
Philosophical real is describable with words.
Perceptive real is individual feeling
Practical real is the way things are, not they we want them to be.

That's pretty good. The philosophical is describable in words because it is theoretical, and it starts with concepts with labels. Individual feeling can only be approximated by either concepts or words -- we have to search for words to describe the exact quality of a particular experience of pain, for instance. The way things 'are', if we accept that the world 'is ', and it is different than the way we naturally perceive it, has to be left to science.

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@Rickoshay75,

Forgive me for implying oversimplification of what appears to be an arbitrary tripartite division of usage of the word "real". But to illustrate the case, take for example your third category...

Quote:

Practical real is the way things are, not they we want them to be.

Assuming you are not advocating "naive realism" (independent of observers) this presumably implies either that "practical real objects" are "fit for human purpose" or alternatively that "we" are a subgroup with culture specific categorizations of "fitness". Some native cultures for example linguistically differentiate between "water that you cross" (which is taboo to drink) and "water that you drink". This appears to conflict with your separation of type 2 and 3 "reality".

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@mars90000000,

Truth does not require understanding or perception. I know this, not because I understand it or perceive it, but because I believe it. However, it is true whether I beleive it or not.

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@demonhunter,

I would say that Reality is something that does not require understanding or perception, and that while I do not know this, I do believe it. Moreover, this belief is stated here as a truth proposition about Reality.

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@JLNobody,

I couldn't have said it better myself.

However, there is always the possibility that reality and truth are not the same thing.

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@demonhunter,

Yes, a truth proposition can never encompass all of Reality, only bits of It and bits that are meaningful only from particular perpectives.
To me Reality is an intellectually unmanageble totality/unity about which nothing can be said (although I have just said something about it, i.e., that nothing can be said about it Rolling Eyes

)

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@mars90000000,

Reality is what's happening while you're making plans

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@mars90000000,

Here's a few more...

"When a man speaks of the need for realism one may be sure that this is always the prelude to some bloody deed" Isaiah Berlin

"The most prolific period of pessimism comes at twenty one, or thereabouts, when the first attempt is made to translate dreams into reality." Haywood Broun

"Realism is fine, but as it approaches reality the cost becomes prohibitive."
William F Buckley

You may be sure that when a man begins to call himself a realist he is preparing to do something that he is secretly ashamed of doing" Sidney J Harris

"If someone tells you he is going to make a realistic decision, you immediately understand that he is resolved to do something bad." Mary McCarthy

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@demonhunter,

demonhunter wrote:

I couldn't have said it better myself.

However, there is always the possibility that reality and truth are not the same thing.

There is no connection between truth and reality. Truth is perception and reality is what you can detect with your senses.

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I guess everything is real in some way; maybe the question should be for every phenomenon, what is it ? What is its reality? Is it a real illusion or a concrete phenomenon? This is difficult. But could someone tell me--point to--something that is not real?

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@mars90000000,

By saying something is real, there must be something unreal, what is unreal ?

Usually those who have difficulties distinquish between realties has mental problems and it's the mental problem that distorts their preception of reality.

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...Again, the funny thing on this typology of questions is that they all start with a WHAT, thus assuming anything must be real at all even when clearly making an efford to discredit the idea...but to the point what is real can only be answered in a tautology as the question is directed in epistemological terms...REAL is whatever is the case to be true !

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@mars90000000,

mars90000000 wrote:

What is "Real"? How do you define "real"? If "real" is all what you can see, what you can hear, what you can feel, taste and smell; then "real" is only electrical signals perceived by your brain. Now, what if you could control these electrical signals; what if you could change these electrical signals, does that mean you could choose and control what another person sees? Let's say that you are actually controlling what another person sees. Let's say you choose what you want the other person to see. Does that mean there are two people at the same place and at the time seeing two different worlds? The question then is: who sees "Real"? You see real because this is the only world you have ever seen and is "real" to you. The other person says he sees "real" because that is the world he has ever seen. He does not know that there is another person in another world at the same time controlling him. His wildest dream may be real.

Likewise, we do not know whether there is another person in another world at the same time controlling what we see. Our wildest dream may be real. We believe reality is what we see but is it really? We believe in this world to be "real" because we wanted our minds to believe in it. Our mind tells us this world is "real" so we believe in it.

Have you ever seen your mind? Does our mind really exist? Is our mind "real"? How can this world be real if its belief comes from a fictional world, namely, our mind. We can create fiction but fiction cannot create us; fiction creates fiction. Does that mean that our world that we believe is "real" might just be fictional? If that is the case, then my question is:
What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

three dimensional consequences of things to existence

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@HexHammer,

Great question. I think that nothing we experience is unreal; we just have to know what it is, what is its reality. I've said before that a mirage is a real mirage, but not a lake. It's reality includes that it is not composed of water.

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Naturally that there are real mirages says nothing against other real things if anything they are a very ironic proof that even that which is hidden must be something rather then nothing...but hey that is so damn obvious one might think one is teaching three years old toddlers...

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@mars90000000,

mars90000000 wrote:

What is "Real"? How do you define "real"? If "real" is all what you can see, what you can hear, what you can feel, taste and smell; then "real" is only electrical signals perceived by your brain. Now, what if you could control these electrical signals; what if you could change these electrical signals, does that mean you could choose and control what another person sees? Let's say that you are actually controlling what another person sees. Let's say you choose what you want the other person to see. Does that mean there are two people at the same place and at the time seeing two different worlds? The question then is: who sees "Real"? You see real because this is the only world you have ever seen and is "real" to you. The other person says he sees "real" because that is the world he has ever seen. He does not know that there is another person in another world at the same time controlling him. His wildest dream may be real.

Likewise, we do not know whether there is another person in another world at the same time controlling what we see. Our wildest dream may be real. We believe reality is what we see but is it really? We believe in this world to be "real" because we wanted our minds to believe in it. Our mind tells us this world is "real" so we believe in it.

Have you ever seen your mind? Does our mind really exist? Is our mind "real"? How can this world be real if its belief comes from a fictional world, namely, our mind. We can create fiction but fiction cannot create us; fiction creates fiction. Does that mean that our world that we believe is "real" might just be fictional? If that is the case, then my question is:
What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

Real is what is, not what it could be, not what it should be, not what someone says it is, not what is on TV, not what you read, not rationalization or justification, just what is --- IS.

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

Great question. I think that nothing we experience is unreal; we just have to know what it is, what is its reality. I've said before that a mirage is a real mirage, but not a lake. It's reality includes that it is not composed of water.

Mirages are part of reality, and shouldn't be considerd anything special, else it turns into some navel gazing nonsens and ends up in elaborate mental mastrubation.

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All the things you mentioned are real but just part of reality and we misunderstand them by our quick conclusions. For example you are just a picture when i see you and not necessarily a human. It is not true if I conclude you are the same as me But the picture i had in my mind from you is real.

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@Rickoshay75,

I think so.

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@HexHammer,

HexHammer wrote:

JLNobody wrote:

Great question. I think that nothing we experience is unreal; we just have to know what it is, what is its reality. I've said before that a mirage is a real mirage, but not a lake. It's reality includes that it is not composed of water.

Mirages are part of reality, and shouldn't be considerd anything special, else it turns into some navel gazing nonsens and ends up in elaborate mental mastrubation.

Reality always is and always will be, mirages are both perceptive and temporary.

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