Gene Pool

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Let's write a book!

I got this idea while swimming at the pool, and filled it in a little on the 10 minute drive home.

Not many people at the pool today. 2 lifeguards, both male, white, in their early 20's.
Me, and 2 other women about my age, late 40's to mid 50's. A man around 65 to 69, white. 2 black men, one late 40's, one early 30's. Maybe 4 other men, 1 maybe hispanic, late 20's, other 3 guys white, late 20's, early 30's.

12 people.
2, maybe 3 backgrounds.

I started talking to the lifeguard about my idea.

Some catastrophe happens (don't ask me, I'm no scientist) where the only people left are our small group at the pool. Well, there could be other small groups, but we're separated around the world by at least a thousand miles.

I said that this group wouldn't continue because all three females were past childbearing years (let's take that as a given). We'd need at least 1 woman, or at least a female child.
At that moment, the gate to the pool opened, and in walked an asian, maybe polynesian woman. The lifeguard says "There you go!"
I said "yeah, that's good. But you know, the most expendible of the group will be us 3 other women, as we can't have children." He thought that was funny, I sure didn't, well, yes I did.

Oh, of course the name of the book would be "Gene Pool"

I was leaving the same time as the asian/polynesian and I told her my idea, and that she would be the mother of all future generations. She liked that idea a lot. But what if she didn't like that idea?

The woman, about 30 years old, would have to have as many childen, and with as many different men, as quickly as possible. The most prized children she has will be the females.

But with whom should she have children? I say the older men, as any of her female children can further diversity the gene pool but having children with the younger men, once they are grown. We'd have to track to hopefully make sure all her children have different fathers.

Here's where us non-fertile women earn our keep. If only the older men can mate with the fertile females, we could keep the younger men happy, while they wait for their chance to contribute to the future of the world with yet unborn women. After just a few generations this age difference will not be necessary, as there will be more diversity.

What about the men who have a genetic predisposition to certain, even rare diseases? They could certainly lie about it, even if they had previously decided they wouldn't have children. Now, giving up your chance to mate means not being part of the future. You may know you shouldn't have children, but are willing to keep it a secret, and play the odds.
Then again, what if the fertile female has a genetic disease probability? That chance will need to be taken.

This variety of fathers, even after the population grows, could become the norm. If a woman has 3 children, it'll be from 2 different men. If she has 5 or more, 3 men would be involved.

Land and other property would now follow the female line, not the males, since she knows her children are hers.

So, what type of catastrophe would leave only this select band alive? We could do the Stephen King "Under the Dome" thing where some aliens kid was playing around with something that belonged to his dad, and "whoops". Or it could be something more realistic. I have no idea what.

Communications would be down, but cars would work, and farm equipment, and we'd have guns for hunting. We'd have gas for so few people for a long time.

Fast forward 100 years, 500. How much has the population grown? How much has the earth been allowed to heal? What would life be like?

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@chai2,

what sort of genetic adaptations and diseases would occur?
This would be a modern day example of the "genetic bottleneck" that occured 70K years ago when a super volcano, Mt Toba exploded .

We lost a whole lot of genetic diversity that time. Thats gonna happen here too and it can cut both ways. SInce your number of nubiles will be only 1, your group is probably non-viable going forward even if she produces, say 3 girl children.I think you should have at least 5 or 6 other nubiles maybe with some additional female pre nubiles as kids.

This could be a cross between some post apocalyptic SCi FI and "The BRidges of Toko Ri" where several people having nothing in common meet on a bridge that gets bombed in the Korean War.

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@farmerman,

The story is self writing because were following an adventure of how precarious the existence of the gene pool is into the future. People die, some at birth, some as nubiles, some at old age. The story becomes almost the creation of a family tree for 500 yers.

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@chai2,

Not exactly what you propose, but look up The White Plague by Frank Herbert. A geneticist goes nuts after watching a terrorist attack kill his family and unleashes a virus that kills women and is carried by men.

As for your novel, it would be interesting to explore the social interactions, but I don't think your intrepid survivors are going to make it. You don't have the technical base to maintain anything. You could maybe survive on canned veggies from the stores, but good luck figuring out how to revert to an agrarian society before everyone dies. Let's hope your Eve doesn't have any complications in child birth because you don't have any doctors. I have doubts for our future.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

what sort of genetic adaptations and diseases would occur?
This would be a modern day example of the "genetic bottleneck" that occured 70K years ago when a super volcano, Mt Toba exploded .

We lost a whole lot of genetic diversity that time. Thats gonna happen here too and it can cut both ways. SInce your number of nubiles will be only 1, your group is probably non-viable going forward even if she produces, say 3 girl children.I think you should have at least 5 or 6 other nubiles maybe with some additional female pre nubiles as kids.

This could be a cross between some post apocalyptic SCi FI and "The BRidges of Toko Ri" where several people having nothing in common meet on a bridge that gets bombed in the Korean War.

Yeah, I was just going by who was present this particular day.

So one nubile isn't enough? It would be touch and go for sure, but totally undoable?
Even if she stays knocked up for the next, oh, 12 years, producing 6 kids?

4 girls/2 boys.

She can die in childbirth having the 6th kid, ok?

each girl has the opportunity to have children with, by that time 5 or 6 guys.

4 girls, 4 or 5 babies each, with 4 or 5 fathers....after that, the females could breed with another one of the now older men (who were once in their 20's) and also with an uncle maybe who didn't have the same father.

engineer - How do you know there aren't any doctors or nurses or midwives in the group? I know an ER doctor that comes there regularly. He's over 55, in great shape (so he'll be around for the next 20 years) and knows his business. He'll give the woman any necessary C-sections. He can train others in the art of medicine.

You don't think amongst the 12 of us we could plant a decent plot of land? We'd have all the information that we don't know in books, and lots of people have food gardening experience.
There's plenty of animal life, like deer around, and fish. I don't think we'd wither away from not having cans of food. We have pecan trees here, berries, and access to all kinds of seeds.
Technology? What, like a hoe or plough?

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@chai2,

do you have electricity in any form, or are you fire dependent?

is there a mechanic in your group?

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Not exactly what you propose, but look up The White Plague by Frank Herbert. A geneticist goes nuts after watching a terrorist attack kill his family and unleashes a virus that kills women and is carried by men.

I listened to the audio book "Darwin's Radio" that reminds me of that...

In the novel, a new form of endogenous retrovirus has emerged, SHEVA. It controls human evolution by rapidly evolving the next generation while in the womb, leading to speciation.

The novel follows several characters as the "plague" is discovered as well as the panicked reaction of the public and the U.S. government to the disease.

Built into the human genome are non-coding sequences of DNA called introns. In Darwin's Radio, certain portions of these "non-sense" sequences, remnants of prehistoric retroviruses, have been activated and are translating numerous LPCs (large protein complexes). The activation of SHEVA and its consequential sudden speciation was postulated to be either controlled by a complex genetic network that perceives a need for modification or a human adaptive response to overcrowding. The disease, or rather, gene activation, is passed on laterally from male to female as per an STD. If impregnated, a woman in her first trimester who has contracted SHEVA will miscarry a deformed female fetus made of little more than two ovaries. This "first stage fetus" leaves behind a fertilized egg with fifty-two chromosomes rather than the typical forty-six characteristic of Homo sapiens sapiens.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

do you have electricity in any form, or are you fire dependent?

is there a mechanic in your group?

If 12 to 15 people were suddenly the only ones around, I don't think there'd be electricity, or phones, etc.

Plenty of ways to make fire.

Sure, we need a mechanic.

Hey! This is OUR book. Write away!

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@chai2,

Won't need phones anyway. Nobody to talk to.

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@chai2,

I was following along pretty good, til I got to the part where you dirty old ladies earn your keep, lmfao.

Ok, gotta refocus on the story, when I get my laughter under control,

I don't know how realistic you want to be, things like gasoline and such go sour in a relatively short period of time.
We've got to develop some kind of sustainable culture along with the breeding plan. It's going to take quite awhile before the population reaches the critical mass necessary for an industrial society.
Maybe we should take the chance of finding other survivors and develop a nomadic culture.

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@wayne,

welcome wayne.

uh huh, uh hug (stroking chin and thinking)

Gas will go bad, hadn't thought of that.
BUT, we could scavenge many many solar panels, and make electricity from that.
There are hybrids and electric cars around. If we got one of those new volts or leafs (there are dealerships here) we would be able to charge them if we had solar electricity, wouldn't we?

Hey! I wasn't thinking of us a dirty old ladies! I think we would be providing a necessary function. If the youngest men weren't going to have their chance are procreation for a couple of decades, they're the one's who are going to be frustrated, angry and malcontents. Honestly? I hadn't thought of "servicing" these young men as particularly enjoyable. Just necessary.

Also, if they are going to have to wait until the Alpha Female's daughters get old enough to breed, having older women around to teach how to respectfully interact with females would be important.

I can imagine if you had a different scenerio, let's say just young men and a few young women, there might be the old story of "I own you women. Men are more important, etc" 3 mature women banded together are not going to tolerate that the way a young 16 year old might.
The Alpha Female is going to be protected and kept safe at all costs by the men who are impregnating her. The older women are going to have quite an interest in her too, and will have a significant say so in making sure she is treated with respect.

More than dirty old ladies, I see the 3 of us as the Wise Elders, along with the oldest man (men).

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@chai2,

this is no problem. (AT least not to the level that your population going to extinction is). You dont need gasoline when nature will provide you diesel fuel naturally. You scrounge only diesel engines and render diesel esters from fat using alcohol and wood ashes to make diesel by filtration and titration.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

(AT least not to the level that your population going to extinction is).

So, you're saying we're doomed.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Oh, Wise Elders, I see Wink

I think that such a small group needs to keep moving, once you put down roots the group dynamic changes and the males will begin to compete.
With such limited breeding opportunity you can't afford to let that get started . Since we have to breed logically, rather than genetically, there's no reason to believe the guy who shows himself to be the best provider is going to be on the breeding list. I think that's a problem for a stationary population.
People tend to toe the line a little better when they know that the group will simply leave them behind. Once you stop moving, you'll have somebody more capable, who begins to lead by virtue of genetic dominance.

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@chai2,

Quote:

So, you're saying we're doomed.

3 generations 4 tops

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@wayne,

Well, in breeding logically, the genetic factor is very much in the forefront.

Ok, my OCD is coming out, I just made a list by age of the men, and their race...To the best of my memory, these are the men who were there....

ed white 65
earl black 48
tom white 33
joel white 32
dave black 30
mike white 29
gabe hispanic 28
jordan lg white 23
blaire lg white 22

The older group, green, and dave, red, get the first generation of daughters.

When those girls are old enough, again dave in red and the blue men can breed with the young women.

That way, the first generation will be some asian/black girls, and some asian white girls.
The question is, does dave get both breeding opportunities? There is a hispanic male in the 2nd group, and besides that, only white.

Do we want to interbreed so that we become no specific group of genes, or do we try to maintain some integrity of separate ancestry? Which would be healthier?

I don't know that the group would be willing to be on the move all the time. We couldn't establish agriculture, and since this happens where I live (Austin), there are just so many things that can make existance easier being realatively stationary. Already built homes, familiarity with the environment, being able to build and maintain protection from wild animals, etc. etc.
Also, will a woman who's hopefully going to be pregnant much of the time going to want to be nomadic?
She's going to have a big say so in everything.

Since we'd have access to guns for hunting, and small plot farming would be a joint effort, I don't know that one individual would stand out as "a good provider" Well yeah, probably, but there are going to be skill sets in each individual that will be necessary. Everyone will be needed.
Even if we moved around, a good mechanic, male or female would be a natural leader and educator.
Since we're not primitive man, the younger men would understand they would get the opportunity to contribute their genes with the first generation of girls.

Agreed upon rules/laws would have to be quickly established, and consequences for breaking them.

Perhaps banishment from the community. Let them be the wanderer. However, if they get their head together, they can come back, by vote.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:
So, you're saying we're doomed.
3 generations 4 tops

Really?

Can you run the figures as to why? Hey, I trust you know what you're talking about, I'm wondering why.

I was thinking it would get easier, population wise. If in the 1st 2 generations care of taken not to interbreed, by 3 and 4th generations wouldn't familial relationships be less close? If care was taken for a couple generations after that?

1 Reply

@chai2,

I kinda agree with F-man, but just based on hunches, no number crunching. (take into account human nature and it's over)

anyways, to continue playing with your hypothesis...

I'm not ready to give up my electricity. and how many homes in Austin have fireplaces you can cook in?

my first headquarters would be the public library. it becomes the church...

hydro-electric or wind power would have a year to develop while gasoline powered generators supplied the juice.

natural gas is another good possibility based on your chosen starting position.

I would have a team of two or three of the young guys set up as a resource gathering / scouting team. driving big diesel rigs, and carrying porta pumps to raid the big truck stop tanks as they travel...(kinda mad max-ish)

1 Reply

@chai2,

What you failed to realize was that the Asian woman had recently had a hysterectomy or better yet was transgendered and had been a man until reading that JGoldman had a thing for Asian babes (I noyticed one of your black men is in his 30s....isn't that Goldman's age? Maybe it's him!)

What happens if the male sires only shoot out Ys and all that end up being born are more sons?

Well, there's where you need to realize that a thousand miles, while a distance, can be traveled, nomadic folk routinely do this, so somehow people from your pool society must go on a trek and locate other men and women. Hmm...you have cars and some gas...the thousand miles is now less difficult.

Of course we definitely need to know what wiped out everyone else, even Ben and Myrtlilda and their clan just outside the pool gate as disaster struck. Rules out most bombing scenarios, plague scenarios etc. If let's say for arguments sake, the pool people are alive because of pool chemicals, then all other pools would also have survivors and I doubt it's a thousand miles to the nearest nextest pool. Besides, you have cars and gas.

Well, now we have alien visitors in their spaceships who are selectively disintegrating earthlings, leaving only the best (or those that they believe are the best). Will there be breeding between species? Kind of like when Sarek and Spock's mother (Amanda) got together and created Spock.

I find it rather strange that you immediately decide that all the old hags will have to keep the young studs happy while the nubile princess of Asian background has to do the deed with the handsome 69 year old man. What if all the men are homosexual? What if all the men are ex-employees of nuclear plants or if they have non-existent sperm count?

Now, since it turns out that the men and the younger woman and one of the women past date, are all gifted scientists and work at the local fertility factory, there is little to worry about. Although the men aren't aroused by women, they can donate their sperm and here's where even the older women come in handy. The Asian princess gives her eggs freely (I was just kidding when I said she may have been a man before) and the women can carry a child to term, since we must rapidly repopulate, each woman will carry 2 children, some may have 3, we won't go beyond that because of extreme health risks to both the woman and the fetus.

Our alien friends have exquisite advancements in scientific technologies and because of this, all persons past 40 age very slowly....like 1 year aging over a span of 20 years. Newborns however, age a little more rapidly, the equivalent of 20 years in just 10 years which will help them to be ready to further populate the planet.

When we fast forward 340 years (I prefer a random number instead of 100 or 500) Wilkonia is repopulated again and all is well. The new generations are advanced in many ways. Men can have babies (you knew there was a reason for the nipples), women and men are equal in most ways, but rely upon each other for the sperm and egg exchange.

As the population expands, the planet becomes congested by people but all is not lost, look, up in the sky, something is wonky with the sun! Oh hell, we are all about to be incinerated!

The End...

...or is it?

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

What you failed to realize was that the Asian woman had recently had a hysterectomy or better yet was transgendered and had been a man until reading that JGoldman had a thing for Asian babes (I noyticed one of your black men is in his 30s....isn't that Goldman's age? Maybe it's him!)

heaven forbid! THEN WE COULDN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT SEX!

What happens if the male sires only shoot out Ys and all that end up being born are more sons?

yeah, that's a potential problem. I also realized that if the Alpha Female was nursing, we wouldn't as likely get pregnant again right away. We'd have to use the available stores of baby formula before they go bad, with the first baby, so she can get going again.

Well, there's where you need to realize that a thousand miles, while a distance, can be traveled, nomadic folk routinely do this, so somehow people from your pool society must go on a trek and locate other men and women. Hmm...you have cars and some gas...the thousand miles is now less difficult.

Uh huh, but what if we are traveling to San Antonio to see if anyone is there, and people from Houston were traveling to Austin to check out the situation there? We wouldn't be the only ones with the look around idea, and we could keep missing each other. More on this with your other idea below....

If let's say for arguments sake, the pool people are alive because of pool chemicals, then all other pools would also have survivors and I doubt it's a thousand miles to the nearest nextest pool. Besides, you have cars and gas.

I LOVE THIS!!! Yeah, anyone who was in chlorinated pool water at the time of the disaster were protected!

Well, now we have alien visitors in their spaceships who are selectively disintegrating earthlings, leaving only the best (or those that they believe are the best). Will there be breeding between species? Kind of like when Sarek and Spock's mother (Amanda) got together and created Spock.

I dunno, it's been done so many times before. Nice idea though.

I find it rather strange that you immediately decide that all the old hags will have to keep the young studs happy while the nubile princess of Asian background has to do the deed with the handsome 69 year old man. What if all the men are homosexual? What if all the men are ex-employees of nuclear plants or if they have non-existent sperm count?

I didn't think that was strange. It seemed to be the only way to make sure we get enough diversity. If the Alpha Female just has babies with the young men who she might find more attractive, who are her children going to have sex with? The same group of young men? Their brothers or half brothers? We'd be leaving 1/2 of the available males genes out of the future generations of earth. The way I thought it could be decided by rational people would be that encouraging diversity was far more important than individual attractions or preferences.
The 69 year old may or may not be able to father a child, but his heritage is just as important to be attempted to be included. It doesn't matter if one or more of the men were gay. They could still father children. Use your imagination.

This isn't a love story, it's survival. It wouldn't particularly interest me to have sex with ANY of the other people there, male or female. But if it meant keeping the younger men from doing something stupid, like killing the over 30 guys and limiting the future choice of fathers permanently, I'd have no hesitation.

The people I saw at the pool were not all working together at the same place, believe me. The lifeguards work as lifeguards, and the others, like me, were all there randomly, not knowing each other. There wasn't any day trip from a nuclear power plant going on that day, or from a local fertility clinic.

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Gene Pool

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