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Sarkozy overheard telling Obama that Netanyahu is a 'liar'

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 05:25 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
I am very accustomed to posters like Advocate who're on the defensive; they think we are attacking Israel and the more we try to point out Israel's fault, the more dug in the poster become.


Well, when everything you say about Israel is a horrific false accusation, what do you expect?

Innocent people tend to object when you accuse them of something that isn't true.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
The US has Israel's back.....so when the US asked to cocky little nation to stop building settlements so the Palestinians can have their state, the Israeli government in effects gives the US president the finger.


Nonsense. Israel halted settlement construction for 10 months, just as was agreed to.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 02:29 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Israel would love to reach a reasonable settlement with the Pals, who have always resisted this.


Still using racist language I see. That may have been true in the 1970s, but since then Israel has moved further to the right. The last Israeli premier who was serious about peace, Yitzhak Rabin, was murdered by far right settlers. Israel continued to create facts on the ground by building illegal settlements and making a Palestinian state less viable every day.


Quote:
Tell me you, CI, and Izzy are not biased. It is clear that you are.


I've always been biased in favour of the oppressed, you obviously seem to favour the oppressor. Do you have violent fantasies about opressing a civilian population?
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 04:13 am
@izzythepush,
Advocate wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Tell me you, CI, and Izzy are not biased. It is clear that you are.


izzythepush wrote:
Quote:

I've always been biased in favour of the oppressed, you obviously seem to favour the oppressor. Do you have violent fantasies about opressing a civilian population?


Ah, the ultimate truth. Wish I had said that. The truth is when we are passionate about a subject our bias does enter into it and we would be lying to say the opposite. Sometimes our bias distorts our sense of justice, but not in the case of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I well recall the assassination of the late PM Yitzhak Rabin which often leads one to believe some in the Israeli society will never allow a two-state solution....and yet, somehow and some way, if Israel is ever to know true peace it will have to give back the land it is consistently stealing from the Palestinians.

"NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!"
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 04:31 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Thanks, I'd like to make one thing clear. Despite what Advocate states, I condemn the violence on both sides. Advocate only concerns himself with Israeli casualties.

Unfortunately recent events have had the opposite outcome, the Gaza strip under Hamas has clearly benefitted from recent fighting, whilst the doves in the West Bank have been further isolated.

It also needs to be borne in mind that the rockets fired out of Gaza are little more than glorified fireworks compared to the targetted missiles used by the IDS. Any comparison of deaths on each side shows Palestinian casualties greatly exceed those of Israelis.

At the end of the day Israel is the occupier, and only the occupier can decide to stop the occupation.

oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 05:32 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
if Israel is ever to know true peace it will have to give back the land it is consistently stealing from the Palestinians.


Israel is not stealing any land from the Palestinians.

And the only thing standing in the way of the Palestinians getting more land handed over to them is their refusal to make peace.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
"NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!"


The Israeli Air Force is quite effective at forcing the Palestinians to be peaceful.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 08:17 am
Sarkozy may be the big liar. He is currently under investigation for serious campaign violations. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nicolas-sarkozy/9952590/Nicolas-Sarkozy-denounces-unfounded-decision-to-investigate-him.html
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 10:32 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Thanks, I'd like to make one thing clear. Despite what Advocate states, I condemn the violence on both sides.

It also needs to be borne in mind that the rockets fired out of Gaza are little more than glorified fireworks


Quite a condemnation.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 03:48 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
You don't think that the asymmetrical nature of the struggle is important? That modern weaponry kills considerably more Palestinians?

These are facts you'd like to brush under the carpet.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 08:49 am
@izzythepush,
Your comment trivalizing the rockets and missiles fired by the Gazans into Israel shows, if anyone doubted it for a moment, your extreme anti-Israel views.

The attacks terrorized a large area of Israel, especially affecting children who, with their families, had to constantly retreat to shelters. Families even began to essentially live in the shelters. Also, there were deaths, injuries, and damage.

Were such attacks made on the UK, say by Ireland, the UK would shut them down in weeks.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 10:13 am
@Advocate,
We entered a peace process with Ireland, something Israel is unwilling to do.

The figures speak for themselves, during operation cast lead alone 1,417 Palestinians were killed with only 13 Israeli deaths, 4 of whom were killed by the Israelis themselves.

I have expressed regret for all deaths, you however, seem to relish the deaths of Palestinians. It's clear what sort of person you are.
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 10:52 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:

We entered a peace process with Ireland, something Israel is unwilling to do.


By Israel always placing obstacles to the peace talks, it gives the impression it does not want to change the status quo. It's not too much to ask the scheming PM to stop building settlements on land he does not own and then invite Abbas to the table to talk! ... No, stalling is a friend if Netanyahu. In four years, he might get a US president who do not care about people or the Palestinian rights, and Israel can take all the land it want with its continued persecution of the Pals.

Quote:

The figures speak for themselves, during operation cast lead alone 1,417 Palestinians were killed with only 13 Israeli deaths, 4 of whom were killed by the Israelis themselves.


The right to life is the most fundamental of all rights, yet, Israel's killing of the Palestinians is astounding, as if these people are of no importance. The hatred that is so deeply inbedded within some in Israeli society is unbelievable in the wake of WW2....one would think they of all people would know what it was like to be humiliated, denigrated, kept down and finally killed without remorse. The worse offenders are the settlers. Often they put sugar into gas tanks of Palestinian cars, burn down their citrus trees. Many Palestinians still hold the keys to the homes they were run out of when they were chased off by the Irgun gang.

There was a New York Times Reporter imbedded with the IDF as they patrolled the West Bank. According to him, every few stops an IDF solder would get out of the back of his truck and fire a shot into the Palestinian crowd, hitting someone, and not looking back. This was also a form of psychological warfare, an intimidation process to frighten Palestinians into moving away.

There was a Palestinian boy throwing rocks at an IDF soldier. The soldier walked over to him (this was also recorded by an imbedded reporter) took his little arm and broke it into three places.....this was aired on the evening news in the US. The cracking sound was picked up by the reporters's microphone. The tiny little boy wet his pans so afraid was he.

It's as if WW2 turned the surviving Jews and its offspring into demons of hell.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 01:25 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Channel 4 commissioned a brilliant 4 part drama about Israel/Palestine with a leading Israeli/Palestinian cast. It broke ground because for a lot of them it was the first time they'd acted together or been allowed in Israel itself.

It tells the story in two historical periods, a British sergeant during the mandate and his granddaughter who visits Israel with a schoolfriend many years later. It's exceptionally good.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-promise
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 02:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The point is that if you are a national leader, you don't voice these opinions when there is any chance they could be publicized.


Or better yet, Finn, you don't elect an idiot, TWICE. Then YOU went ahead and did it again with GWB.

Just for fun, let's do a flashback, shall we?

Quote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6106690


"I never knew anything above Cs."
--President Reagan, in a moment of truthfulness, describes his academic record to Barbara Walters, November 27, 1981

"They told stories about how inattentive and inept the President was.... They said he wouldn't come to work--all he wanted to do was to watch movies and television at the residence."
--Jim Cannon (an aide to Howard Baker) reporting what Reagan's underlings told him, Landslide: The Unmaking of the President: 1984-88

"Reagan's only contribution throughout the entire hour and a half was to interrupt somewhere at midpoint to tell us he'd watched a movie the night before, and he gave us the plot from WarGames, the movie. That was his only contribution."
--Lee Hamilton (Representative from Indiana) interviewed by Haynes Johnson, Sleepwalking Through History: America in the Reagan Years

"This President is treated by both the press and foreign leaders as if he were a child.... It is major news when he honors a political or economic discussion with a germane remark and not an anecdote about his Hollywood days."
--Columnist Richard Cohen

"What planet is he living on?"
--President Mitterand of France poses this question about Reagan to Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau.

"During Mr. Reagan's trip to Europe...members of the traveling press corps watched him doze off so many times--during speeches by French President Francois Mitterrand and Italian President Alessandro Pertini, as well as during a one-on-one audience with the Pope--that they privately christened the trip 'The Big Sleep.'"
--Mark Hertsgaard, On Bended Knee: The Press and the Reagan Presidency

"He demonstrated for all to see how far you can go in this life with a smile, a shoeshine and the nerve to put your own spin on the facts."
--David Nyhan, Boston Globe columnist

"an amiable dunce"
--Clark Clifford (former Defense Secretary)

"Poor dear, there's nothing between his ears."
--British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher

"...like reinventing the wheel."
--Larry Speakes (Reagan's former press secretary) describing what it was like preparing the President for a press conference, Speaking Out: The Reagan Presidency from Inside the White House

"The task of watering the arid desert between Reagan's ears is a challenging one for his aides."
--Columnist David Broder

"He has the ability to make statements that are so far outside the parameters of logic that they leave you speechless"
--Patti Davis (formerly Patricia Ann Reagan) talking about her father, The Way I See It

"This loathing for government, this eagerness to prove that any program to aid the disadvantaged is nothing but a boondoggle and a money gobbler, leads him to contrive statistics and stories with unmatched vigor."
--Mark Green, Reagan's Reign of Error

"President Reagan doesn't always check the facts before he makes statements, and the press accepts this as kind of amusing."
--former president Jimmy Carter, March 6, 1984

"Ronald Reagan is the first modern President whose contempt for the facts is treated as a charming idiosyncrasy."
--James David Barber, presidential scholar, On Bended Knee: The Press and the Reagan Presidency, Mark Hertsgaard

"His errors glide past unchallenged. At one point...he alleged that almost half the population gets a free meal from the government each day. No one told him he was crazy. The general message of the American press is that, yes, while it is perfectly true that the emperor has no clothes, nudity is actually very acceptable this year."
--Simon Hoggart, in The Observer (London), 1986

-----------------------------------------------------------

Uncommon Wisdom from "The Gipper"

"A tree's a tree. How many more do you need to look at?"
--Ronald Reagan (Governor of California), quoted in the Sacramento Bee, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park, March 3, 1966

"I don't believe a tree is a tree and if you've seen one you've seen them all."
--Governor Ronald Reagan, in the Sacramento Bee, September 14, 1966

"All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk."
--Ronald Reagan (Republican candidate for president), quoted in the Burlington (Vermont) Free Press, February 15, 1980. (In reality, the average nuclear reactor generates 30 tons of radioactive waste per year.)

"I have flown twice over Mount St. Helens. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that one little mountain out there, in these last several months, has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in Time magazine, October 20, 1980. (According to scientists, Mount St. Helens emitted about 2,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day at its peak activity, compared with 81,000 tons per day produced by cars.)

"Growing and decaying vegetation in this land are responsible for 93 percent of the oxides of nitrogen."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in the Los Angeles Times, October 9, 1980. (According to Dr. Michael Oppenheimer of the Environmental Defense Fund, industrial sources are responsible for at least 65 percent and possibly as much as 90 percent of the oxides of nitrogen in the U.S.)

"Approximately 80 percent of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation. So let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards for man-made sources."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in Sierra, September 10, 1980

"I've said it before and I'll say it again. The U.S. Geological Survey has told me that the proven potential for oil in Alaska alone is greater than the proven reserves in Saudi Arabia."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in the Detroit Free Press, March 23, 1980. (According to the USGS, the Saudi reserves of 165.5 billion barrels are 17 times the proven reserves--9.2 billion barrels--in Alaska.)

"Why should we subsidize intellectual curiosity?"
--Ronald Reagan, campaign speech, 1980

"Trains are not any more energy efficient than the average automobile, with both getting about 48 passenger miles to the gallon."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in the Chicago Tribune, May 10, 1980. (The U.S. Department of Transportation calculates that a 14-car train traveling at 80 miles per hour gets 400 passenger miles to the gallon. A 1980 auto carrying an average of 2.2 people gets 42.6 passenger miles to the gallon.)

"It's silly talking about how many years we will have to spend in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country and put parking stripes on it and still be home by Christmas."
--Ronald Reagan (candidate for Governor of California), interviewed in the Fresno Bee, October 10, 1965

"I have a feeling that we are doing better in the war than the people have been told."
--Ronald Reagan, in the Los Angeles Times, October 16, 1967

"...the moral equal of our Founding Fathers."
--President Reagan, describing the Nicaraguan contras, March 1, 1985

"Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in Time, May 17, 1976

"I know all the bad things that happened in that war. I was in uniform four years myself."
--President Reagan, in an interview with foreign journalists, April 19, 1985. ("In costume" is more like it. Reagan spent World War II making Army training films at Hal Roach Studios in Hollywood.)

"They've done away with those committees. That shows the success of what the Soviets were able to do in this country."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in the Washington Times, September 30, 1987. (Reagan longs for the days of Sen. Joseph McCarthy and the HCUA witch hunts.)

"We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years."
--President Reagan, quoted in USA Today, April 26, 1983

"What we have found in this country, and maybe we're more aware of it now, is one problem that we've had, even in the best of times, and that is the people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice."
--President Reagan, defending himself against charges of callousness on Good Morning America, January 31, 1984

"I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at the point of a bayonet, if necessary."
--Ronald Reagan, Los Angeles Times, October 20, 1965

"I would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964."
--Ronald Reagan, Los Angeles Times, June 17, 1966

"If there has to be a bloodbath, then let's get it over with."
--Ronald Reagan (Governor of California), quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle, early morning edition, May 15, 1969. (Reagan reveals how he intends to quell student protests in the city of Berkeley, California. Protesters were teargassed and fired upon with buckshot, killing one, blinding another, and wounding 128. Reagan would later declare a state of emergency in the city and send in 2,700 National Guard troops.)

"Today a newcomer to the state is automatically eligible for our many aid programs the moment he crosses the border."
--Ronald Reagan, in a speech announcing his candidacy for Governor, January 3, 1966. (In fact, immigrants to California had to wait five years before becoming eligible for benefits. Reagan acknowledged his error, but nine months later said exactly the same thing.)

"...a faceless mass, waiting for handouts."
--Ronald Reagan, 1965. (Description of Medicaid recipients.)

"Unemployment insurance is a pre-paid vacation for freeloaders."
--California Governor Ronald Reagan, in the Sacramento Bee, April 28, 1966

"We were told four years ago that 17 million people went to bed hungry every night. Well, that was probably true. They were all on a diet."
--Ronald Reagan, TV speech, October 27, 1964

"But I also happen to be someone who believes in tithing--the giving of a tenth ."
--Ronald Reagan, from The Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents, February 8, 1982. (He may believe in tithing, but he doesn't practice it. Reagan's total charitable giving of $5,965 did not approach 10% of total income. It was more like 1.4%.)

" until now has there ever been a time in which so many of the prophecies are coming together. There have been times in the past when people thought the end of the world was coming, and so forth, but never anything like this."
--President Reagan revealing a disturbing view about the "coming of Armageddon," December 6, 1983

"History shows that when the taxes of a nation approach about 20 percent of the people's income, there begins to be a lack of respect for government.... When it reaches 25 percent, there comes an increase in lawlessness."
--Ronald Reagan, in Time, April 14, 1980. (History shows no such thing. Income tax rates in Europe have traditionally been far higher than U.S. rates, while European crime rates have been much lower.)

"Because Vietnam was not a declared war, the veterans are not even eligible for the G. I. Bill of Rights with respect to education or anything."
--Ronald Reagan, in Newsweek, April 21, 1980. (Wrong again.)

"Politics is just like show business. You have a hell of an opening, coast for a while, and then have a hell of a close."
--Ronald Reagan to aide Stuart Spencer, 1966


First Reagan, and then Bush. And now Palin is next up on the hot seat for the Repugs. I cant help but feel that their is some organisation that goes looking for the dumbest candidate that looks the part for the head of the republican party.



Advocate
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 04:11 pm
@JTT,
Thanks for the Reagan stuff. How freightening is that. Who is the next idiot they will fob off on us? Moreover, he is still beloved by the right.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 07:33 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Channel 4 commissioned a brilliant 4 part drama about Israel/Palestine with a leading Israeli/Palestinian cast. It broke ground because for a lot of them it was the first time they'd acted together or been allowed in Israel itself.

It tells the story in two historical periods, a British sergeant during the mandate and his granddaughter who visits Israel with a schoolfriend many years later. It's exceptionally good.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-promise


Hey, Izzy. Thanks so much for the post and link. I intend to watch it.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 06:04 am
@Moment-in-Time,
It's well worth it, I saw in about a year or so ago. It begins with the liberation of Belsen, and the central character is initially very pro-Israel, but this belief gets challenged by events.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 08:16 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
It's as if WW2 turned the surviving Jews and its offspring into demons of hell.



It's not unreasonable to come to such a conclusion based on the evidence, but you have to remember that there are lots of decent people in Israel fully committed to a just and equitable peace. B'tselem does a wonderful job in exposing human rights abuses.

People like Advocate are as contemptuous of such decent Israelis as they are of the Palestinians, they've thrown their lot in with the right wing settlers who view the whole of the middle east as theirs by right.
Advocate
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 08:34 am
@izzythepush,
You say the settlers view the entire ME as theirs. That is beyond mere exaggeration. It is downright silliness.

The real hell beasts are the Pals who treat their women as cattle, and persecute and murder Christians, Jews, gays, and other minorities. You seem to think they are the best people in the world.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 08:41 am
@Advocate,
Your continued use of racist language shows what sort of person you are.

Your insistance on labelling all Palestinians as Islamic fundamentalists exposes your profound ignorance on the subject.

Quote:
Today, of the roughly 3.9 million Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories, less than two percent are Christians. Of the 1.4 million Palestinians living inside Israel, meanwhile, roughly eight percent belong to Christian communities.


http://electronicintifada.net/content/christianity-palestine-misrepresentation-and-dispossession/6280

I know you'd never let the facts get in the way of your frothing at the mouth bigotry, but others are more enlightened.

Advocate
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 08:47 am
@izzythepush,
First, my language is not racist. Second, it is so interesting that you are more concerning about my terminolgy than you are about the horrors committed by the Pals.
 

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