@Advocate,
Advi! It sure has been a while since you’ve been around!
I see you’re still up to your tired cut and paste jobs of self-serving, paranoid Zionist hack pieces. Since it’s been some time since you’ve done this here, I think I’ll indulge once again in refuting this crap that is your wont to post.
Steven Plaut, in his hack piece for FrontPageMag, wrote:By now, Israel, at the urging and bullying of the world, has tried pretty much every conceivable idea and option for achieving tranquility and reconciliation with the Hamas, except for one. Israel removed its army and civilian population from the Gaza Strip. In what amounted to the first ethnic self-cleansing in history, Israel evicted the entire Jewish presence in Gaza. The entire area was turned over to the Palestinians, lock, stock, barrel, and Jew-free.
Well, no, Israel hasn’t come close to trying “pretty much every conceivable idea and option for achieving tranquility and reconciliation with Hamas.” Israel hasn’t stopped discriminating against and oppressing the Palestinian peoples. That is the only way that Israel will achieve tranquility and reconciliation not only with Hamas but with all of the peoples of Palestine.
The unilateral evacuation of Gaza was merely a ploy to create a mega-concentration camp over which Israel wields complete control, and then market the endeavor as a kind of good will gesture for the international community to consume. Israel’s sights are set on the real prize: the West Bank, what they refer to as Judea and Samaria.
Quote:The result is of course known. The Hamas immediately converted all of Gaza into a large rocket launch pad and a base for initiating terrorist attacks against Israel. It kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and held him incommunicado, refusing medical treatment to him, even though his arm was filled with shrapnel. Israel in response provided free electricity and water to the Gazans and sent civilian supplies into Gaza. Israel never made any serious efforts to stop the massive tunnel smuggling into Gaza from Egypt, even when it was clear that the main item being smuggled was weapons. These smuggled weapons include bomb materials and sophisticated rockets that can now reach Tel Aviv. Israel responded to the endless rocket attacks against its own civilians by turning the other cheek. Only after 8000 rocket strikes did it launch the half-hearted symbolic retaliation in the "Cast Lead" campaign, withdrawing quickly after it was launched.
That is exactly what Israel expected to happen after it unilaterally “withdrew” from the Gaza Strip precisely at the moment when Hamas was about to come to power after elections were held by the PA. It provides for a pretext for the perpetuation of Zionist persecution delusion paranoia which itself is a pretext for the Zionists’ continued discrimination against and oppression of the Palestinian peoples.
Quote:There is only one strategy for dealing with the Hamas that Israel has never attempted. That untried strategy is victory. Israel has never seriously attempted to achieve peace and tranquility with the Gaza Palestinians by means of victory. This is somewhat strange, since it is hard to think of any other war that did not end in peace only after victory. Instead, the world keeps demanding that Israel respond to Hamas provocation with an endless series of one-sided "goodwill measures." Never mind that the only invariable effect of such Israeli "goodwill measures" has been to trigger more Hamas terrorism. The only "peace settlement" the Hamas is interested in is one in which Israelis volunteer to allow themselves to be placed in Hamas-run extermination camps for Jews.
No, the only one strategy for dealing with Hamas and the rest of the peoples of Palestine is to stop discriminating against and oppressing them, and granting them their due: the right of return and egalitarian and pluralistic enfranchisement within a truly democratic system of government that abandons and replaces the unsavory and grotesque ethnocentrically motivated Zionist one that demands that Palestine is “for the Jews” through which Israel necessarily discriminates against and oppresses the Palestinian peoples for merely being non-Jewish.
The emotionalist line about “the only ‘peace settlement’ the Hamas is interested is one in which Israelis volunteer to allow themselves to be placed in Hamas-run extermination camps for Jews” is puerile, and exhibits the considerable paranoid mindset which is behind much of Zionist thought processes. Where do these paranoids get this idea from? Hamas, if anything, want a theocratic state based on Islamic law in all of Palestine. They want a Palestine “for the Muslims,” which isn’t much of a difference from the Zionists’ idea of Israel “for the Jews.” The discrimination against and oppression of non-Muslims in such a state would be roughly comparable to that which the Zionists presently perpetuate against non-Jews in Israel/Palestine. In this Hamas and the Zionists are equally reprehensible.
What is needed in Israel/Palestine is the implementation of a single, egalitarian and pluralistic bi-national state for all of the peoples therein.
Quote:Victory in the case of the war with the Gaza terrorists would mean annihilating the Hamas.
Yeah right, just like victory in Afghanistan for the US
was to annihilate the Taliban. That war was close to ruining the US which now is attempting to define victory to include as a series of negotiations with the Taliban to reach a truce.
No, victory
for all of the people in Israel/Palestine would be to implement a government like the one I’ve described above.
Quote:The entire world has convinced itself that violence and terrorism in the Middle East are the results of Israeli "occupation" over Arabs. They are wrong. If there is one thing that has become glaringly obvious in the past two decades it is that the main cause of terrorist violence in the Middle East is the removal of Israeli occupation over Arabs. The Gaza violence was not caused by Israeli occupation but by its removal. The Hezbollah violence and threats from Lebanon were not caused by Israeli "occupation" of Southern Lebanon but rather by its removal.
This is the most astoundingly ass-backwards assessment of the situation in the Middle East. Saying that the absence of an occupier begets violence is tantamount to claiming that the absence of rhinovirus begets the common cold. The premise is absurd. Plainly and simply, the absence of an occupier does not beget violence. The presence of an occupier begets violence.
Quote:Part of the world's problem in understanding such things about the Middle East is that most people have no idea how small Israel really is.
Israel’s size is irrelevant to the crux of the problem at the heart of the Israel/Palestine Conflict: the Zionists’ discrimination against and oppression of the Palestinian peoples. Arguments about size are straw man arguments and red herrings designed to obfuscate, convolute and draw attention away from the matter at hand.
Quote:The caterwauling against Israel's decision to shoot back occasionally at the terrorists is coming from those claiming that Israel was erected on "Palestinian lands." This is like claiming that Alaska sits on Russian lands. The Arabs briefly controlled Palestine militarily, as the Russians briefly owned Alaska. The Jews and not the Arabs are analogous to the native Eskimos. Israeli settlements are about as "illegal" as are Eskimo villages in Alaska. There has never ever in history been a Palestinian state, and there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, any more than there is a separate Rhode Islander people. The fact of the matter is that the West Bank and Gaza are hardly "Palestinian lands."
However one wishes to think of the lands that the Zionists occupy--that a god gave those lands to “the Jews” (a term that Zionists themselves have trouble defining) that some of “the Jews’” ancestors once lived there, etc. ad nauseam-- this does not negate the rights of the peoples that the Zionists are repressing. These arguments are also straw man arguments and red herrings designed to obfuscate, convolute and draw attention away for the crux of the problem: the Zionists’ discrimination against and oppression of the Palestinian peoples.
Quote:Even if anyone thinks the Palestinians might have had some legitimate claim to statehood or sovereignty, the Palestinians forfeited any such right they might have had due to the past century of Palestinian atrocities and terror.
No, the violence perpetrated by Palestinian militants is merely a pretext by the Zionists for their continued repression of all of the Palestinian peoples in the name of their ethnocentric regime “for the Jews.”
Quote:The only real way to suppress the carnage is for Israel to re-occupy Gaza and the West Bank in full, implement open-ended military control there and a long-term program of Denazification (based in part on the Allied programs at the end of World War II). Israel needs to expel the terrorists and destroy their infrastructure. It needs to get serious about shooting terrorists. Everything else is wishful thinking and delusion.
No. Once again, the only real way to even begin to suppress the carnage—which has, by and large, been much more heavily against the Palestinians in this conflict—is for Israel to stop repressing the Palestinian peoples. Then, if any extremists from either side persist (like
Kach,
Kahane chai and other violently motivated ultra-nationalist groups), these extremists should be persecuted and prosecuted to the highest extent of the law.
Denazificaition? Plaut has a severely lacking knowledge of history seeing as how the Nazis no longer exist. Plaut needs to shut up and read more about the things he spews about. He exemplifies the adage about it being better to be quiet and risking being thought a fool than to open one’s yap and remove all doubt.
Quote:Palestinian "suffering"? If the Palestinians are unhappy with Israeli anti-terror policies, retaliations, checkpoints and military incursions, let them stop the terror and desist from murdering Israelis, or let them move to any of the 22 Arab states. As long as they persist in the violence, any "suffering" by Palestinians is, much like the suffering of Germans and Japanese during World War II, their own fault. The solution is certainly not for Israel to stop resisting the terror, to stop fighting back, nor for Israel to desist from trying to protect its citizens.
Palestinian suffering is predicated on the Zionists repression of the Palestinian peoples, Plaut’s dismissivness of Palestinian suffering notwithstanding. As long as the Zionists persist, those Palestinians who are violently motivated will continue to perpetrate violence against the Zionists. It’s blaringly simple.
Quote:The endless post-Oslo Middle East violence and terror was triggered because Israel indicated that it was on the run, exhausted, unwilling to fight, afraid to resist, and ready to capitulate.
The post-Oslo Middle East violence was triggered because the Zionists refused to own up to their obligations and grant the Palestinians their Right of Return, and their sovereignty over East Jerusalem; and provocative actions by Israel’s leadership at the time.
Quote: It will end only when Israel returns to its determination to end the terror through military victory and force of arms. The same United States that has understood that there is only a military option for dealing with terror in Iraq and Afghanistan must back up such a return by Israel to pre-Oslo sanity.
Yeah, and we all know how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have resulted for the US what with their cost bringing the country to the brink of ruin, and a shift from dictatorship to democracy that won’t bring Iraq any closer to US influence, and a “victory” in Afghanistan that includes a negotiated truce.
Quote:There are no non-military solutions to the problems of terrorism.
The only solution to the problems of terrorism is for the repressors to desist and redress their tort.
