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Texas Trying to Execute Another Innocent Person

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 04:39 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
American system of justice, which holds that a man is considered innocent until proven guilty.


The problem here is that he was proven guilty.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 04:46 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The problem here is that he was proven guilty.


No he wasn't, he was found guilty. The DNA evidence can prove things one way or another.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 04:47 am
@Setanta,
I agree with you as well mate, particularly when you say you rarely agree with Oralloy, but in this instance he is right.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 04:53 am
@BillRM,
No, he wasn't proven guilty. A prosecutor convinced a jury, and did so while withholding crucial evidence. But you don't care, do you Bill, you low-life scum bag. You'd be content to see this man die so long as you are never called upon to admit that you are wrong. You are even more disgusting than i had previously thought, and that's saying a lot.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 06:23 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The DNA evidence can prove things one way or another.



Nonsense DNA is just another piece of evidence.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 06:56 am
@BillRM,
Bill, you seriously need to back up and read that last post of yours. DNA is just another piece of evidence? The type of evidence that can UNDENIABLY prove someone's innocence or guilt! When arguing a rape case I seem to recall you thought pretty highly of DNA evidence.

Why do you want this man to die without knowing the truth UNDENIABLY?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:15 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
The type of evidence that can UNDENIABLY prove someone's innocence or guilt! When arguing a rape case I seem to recall you thought pretty highly of DNA evidence


DNA and how important it can be or not depend on the situation there is no magic in the letters DNA.

A man once gave a DNA sample to the police in a rape case and was clear of that crime but ended up being arrested due to his DNA profile showing up in another rape case in the DNA crime database.

The police like you had faith in DNA and did no further checking before charging him for rape.

The fact for example he was as white as white could be and the rapist was listed as being black did not matter at all as the DNA match.

It turn out that the DNA was gather from the victim bed and belong to her old boyfriend not the rapist however he still spend a few days in jail listed as a rapist and the police even acted annoyed when the woman clear her former boyfriend.

DNA can be very important in solving a crime or totally worthless it need to be look at like any other piece of evidence.



ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:22 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

DNA can be very important in solving a crime or totally worthless it need to be look at like any other piece of evidence.


that's correct. DNA needs to be looked at as a piece of evidence.

In this case, there is DNA evidence that the Texas government has refused to look at. They are ignoring evidence.

As you have just stated, it needs to be looked at.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:31 am
@ehBeth,
Hmm if I ever decide to murder someone I will need to remember to gather random DNA samples and place them all around the crime scene.

If can not be Bill as unknown DNA that is clearly not his is showing up on the body.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:43 am
@BillRM,
We'll keep that in mind on the next thread where you tout the benefits of DNA.

You're trying to suck and blow at the same time.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:47 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
You're trying to suck and blow at the same time


My my a useful technology need to be either blindly worship or disregarded totally.

I never knew that DNA had reach the level of a religion with some people.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 08:03 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hmm if I ever decide to murder someone I will need to remember to gather random DNA samples and place them all around the crime scene.


If you ever do murder anyone, you'd be well advised not to take the stand. Your inarticulate grunts will convict you in the eyes of any jury.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 08:12 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

BillRM wrote:

DNA can be very important in solving a crime or totally worthless it need to be look at like any other piece of evidence.


that's correct. DNA needs to be looked at as a piece of evidence.

In this case, there is DNA evidence that the Texas government has refused to look at. They are ignoring evidence.

As you have just stated, it needs to be looked at.
I just read that it was the defense attorney that chose NOT to have the DNA tested at the time of trial? I need to do a bit more research into this.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 08:15 am
@Arella Mae,
I think that was in one of the first posts. The person charged wanted the DNA tested, his counsel (the guy put on the case by the judge to pay off his debts) said no. Very hinky situation there.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 08:17 am
@ehBeth,
Okay so why is everyone saying the government is the one stopping the testing? Can you catch me up a bit? I'm at work and can only get on here inbetween jobs.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 08:28 am
@Arella Mae,
There was a change in Skinner's counsel.

Comer was the original court-appointed attorney.

Quote:
The other problem is that Skinner did ask for testing at the time of trial. His court-appointed attorney made a strategic decision to disregard his client's wishes, believing the testing would implicate him. That attorney, Harold Lee Comer, was a disgraced former prosecutor who lost his job after he was caught stealing money seized in a drug case. Skinner's trial judge, a friend of Comer's, assigned the attorney to represent Skinner and ordered him to be paid roughly the amount Comer owed the state for his own misconduct. In fact, Comer had actually prosecuted Skinner on an assault charge years earlier.


then there was a change in representation

Quote:
For more than a decade, Hank Skinner's legal team has tried to get that evidence tested, at no cost to the state of Texas. And for more than a decade, the Texas 31st District Attorney's Office has refused.


Quote:
On a 2000 episode of the Nancy Grace show, Skinner advocate and Medill Professor David Protess challenged the then-D.A. to test the hairs Busby held at the time of her death. The prosecutor agreed. But when preliminary mitochondrial testing suggested a good chance that the hairs didn't belong to Skinner, the prosecutor halted any further testing on the hairs or on any of the remaining untested evidence.



the quotes are from the link in the original post
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 08:55 am
@ehBeth,
Thanx! I am definitely going to do some research. Sure sounds fishy, doesn't it?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 11:08 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

I acknowledge that there is a small chance (very small) that he is guilty. But the actions of the government in blocking testing justifies a freestanding assumption that he is innocent until such time that the evidence is allowed to be tested.


The legal basis for such an assumption is?

He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. In the eyes of the law he is guilty, and, in the end, it is only the perspective of the law that matters.

I agree that the State of Texas should test the DNA evidence and at the very least grant him a new trial if the tests prove negative; however the State of Texas is not bound by morality, only legality.

I also oppose the death penalty, if for no other reason than we should not grant the State the right and power to kill any of us for any reason, but I don't think it benefits the discourse on this topic or this specific case to insist that Texas is going to execute an innocent man.

This happens to be a death penalty case and so the stakes are as high as they come, but Texas is not alone in having prosecutors who resist any possibility of giving up a victory.

I think it's a bit unfair, as well, to assume that the individuals involved don't care whether the man is innocent, or that a victory is so important to them that they will watch a man they believe to be innocent put to death.

It's an unnecessary, and I believe, twisted effort to cast prosecutors as the villains and criminals as the good guys.

I'm relative sure that the prosecutors in this case were and are convinced this man is guilty.

Of course a problem could arise if he is not guilty of the crime for which he was charged. It goes without saying that it is not within the prosecution's power to judge the defendant guilty of being a vicious criminal based on his past and therefore working to convict him for his life of crime rather than the specific alleged crime at hand. I think they do it though and while they shouldn't I also think I understand why they do.

Over their careers I suspect that they see far more defendants that they know are guilty set free than those they believe may be innocent of the crime at hand for which they are convicted.

Again, it's perfectly clear that they are not empowered to prosecute someone based on anything other than the evidence relating to the alleged crime at hand, but as we all know (or at least should know) we're all capable of imposing our personal moral code over that of the law.

Casting Texas prosecutors or prosecutors in general, (as some are inclined to do) as cold hearted SOBs who are hell bent on convictions at all costs is unfair and unhelpful.

As you know, ours is an adversarial system, and so if there are cases of defend at all costs, there are bound to be cases of prosecute at all costs.

Just another reason not to allow the State to kill any of us.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 11:18 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

BillRM wrote:
Oh I love the title of this thread the man is innocent and the hell with the jury and the appeals as there might be some evidence that can be check with current DNA technology so he is now innocent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Glad you liked it. I tried hard to make it both hard-hitting and factual. One of my better successes I think.


And yet you previously admitted he could be guilty.

"Facts" of the title are in doubt.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 11:19 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

BillRM wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
the correct presumption is that the defendant is innocent.


That surely is your feelings however your feelings could not be more wrong.


That is my ethics, not my feelings. And my ethics are spot on.

So long as the government blocks testing of the evidence, the correct presumption is that the person is innocent.


Well, with your ethics and $2.50, the defendant in this case can buy a small cup of Starbuck's coffee.

0 Replies
 
 

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