57
   

Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 04:18 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
There is a need to have some knowledge of the times, the geography, the politics and the cultures of Galilee and Judea in order to address oneself to the question and there is not the slightest sign of any such knowledge being present on this thread except for myself and my knowledge is very skimpy.



OK feel us in with this knowledge, "Oh skimpy knowledge one.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 04:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
.he is merely taking silly pot shots at me for some reason.


spendius is just being spendius.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 05:09 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
No. He just switched the onus onto God. And he doesn't believe in God because he has no evi......blah blah.


Sorry, Spendius, but you are being illogical again.

There may be a GOD...and if there is, I am not attacking that GOD in any way.

I am pointing out that the god of the Bible said that there was nothing wrong with trafficking in slaves; owning slaves; treating slaves as chattels; bequeathing slaves; and keeping slaves slaves forever.

Try to stick with what I am actually writing and saying, Spendius. If you make stuff up and argue against what you make up...you look foolish. And I, for one, do not want you to look foolish.

And you really ought stop suggesting that questions you cannot answer are "ridiculous." Doing so makes you look petty. And I, for one, do not want you to look petty.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 05:11 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
spendius is just being spendius.


He is indeed. It is amusing at times, is it not?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 05:16 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
OK feel us in with this knowledge, "Oh skimpy knowledge one.


You couldn't take it rl. Trust me.

I'll give you a hint--Mary Magdalene.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 05:24 pm
@spendius,
spendis made us a fresh pitcher of gasconade, made with fresh gas
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 01:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
A state rep. in Arkansas has an answer for you Frank. It looks like he agrees with your take on the question.
http://able2know.org/topic/199598-1#post-5131708
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 02:38 pm
@mesquite,
Thanks for that link, Mesquite.

Hard question to answer!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 03:19 pm
@mesquite,
What does "God-Awful" mean in the various contexts? I'm not absolutely sure but I don't think there were slaves in Galilee and social reform and sentiment were not on Jesus' agenda just as Hiroshima wasn't on Einstein's when he inaugurated the nuclear age.

It's a stupid question.
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 03:56 pm
@spendius,
According to Merriam-Webster it means extremely unpleasant or disagreeable.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god-awful

When I hear the term it brings to mind these passages.
in Deuteronomy 28 God wrote:
15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
.
20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.

.22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.

24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

.25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou
shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.

27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.

28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:

.29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

.30 Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof.

31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them.

32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand.

33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway:

34 So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

35 The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.

.36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

.37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.

38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it.

39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them.

.40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit.

41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.

.42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.

43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.

44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:

46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.

47 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things;

.48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have
destroyed thee.

.49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.

52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

.53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:

54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;

59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.

.63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:

.66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

.67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 04:00 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I'm not absolutely sure but I don't think there were slaves in Galilee...


You are not absolutely sure???

I am sure that Jesus and the people who wrote about Jesus...knew that slavery existed. Jesus would have known that because he could have read that the god he worshiped thought there was nothing wrong with slave trafficking...in fact, nothing wrong with slavery at all.

C'mon, Spendius. You can do better than this.

Quote:
... and social reform and sentiment were not on Jesus' agenda just as Hiroshima wasn't on Einstein's when he inaugurated the nuclear age.


Social reform was not on Jesus' agenda? Where does that come from?


Quote:
It's a stupid question.


It most assuredly is not a stupid question. It is one you are unprepared to answer, which is the reason you are trying so hard (albeit, unsuccessfully) to portray it as "stupid."
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 04:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Social reform was not on Jesus' agenda? Where does that come from?



It makes me wonder what those men in the long robes were teaching spendius. I can only guess it was whatever popped up first.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 05:09 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5132452)
Quote:
Social reform was not on Jesus' agenda? Where does that come from?



It makes me wonder what those men in the long robes were teaching spendius. I can only guess it was whatever popped up first.


Spendius has been saying some incredibly naive things lately, RL. I think he has gone over the edge on this issue.

But "Social reform was not on Jesus' agenda" is from Pluto!

I suspect Spendius will come forth with one of his rambling, incoherent comments to try to justify the thing, but that is something we will just have to endure.

Thanks for commenting, RL.
aspvenom
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The way I see it you should be thankful to spendius. His opposing views is what is keeping this thread going on and on like the energizer bunny.
Thank him Frank, and while you're at it, give him a HIGH FIVE!!
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 03:42 am
@aspvenom,
I have thanked Spendius on many, many occasions, but I certainly am willing to act on your suggestion here:

Spendius, ole friend, I thank you once again for your many contributions to this discussion.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 05:14 am
@aspvenom,
The only information we have about Jesus has been mediated by the evangelists and the theologians of the Church. They have written into the record what they wanted to with a Gentile audience in view.

The thread question is anachronistic. i.e. stupid. It betrays a total ignorance of both history and religion. It has one purpose only and it is to discredit Jesus and God and the Church for reasons we are all free to speculate upon. That I think the reasons are associated with rumpy-pumpy derives from my experience of others, many others, who seek to discredit The Man, His God and the Church. Which is very easy to do superficially.

I'm not sure what we are left with when the discrediting is complete and I doubt whether any of you would like to live it.

Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 05:54 am
@spendius,
Quote:
The only information we have about Jesus has been mediated by the evangelists and the theologians of the Church. They have written into the record what they wanted to with a Gentile audience in view.

The thread question is anachronistic. i.e. stupid. It betrays a total ignorance of both history and religion. It has one purpose only and it is to discredit Jesus and God and the Church for reasons we are all free to speculate upon. That I think the reasons are associated with rumpy-pumpy derives from my experience of others, many others, who seek to discredit The Man, His God and the Church. Which is very easy to do superficially.

I'm not sure what we are left with when the discrediting is complete and I doubt whether any of you would like to live it.


The question is neither anachronistic nor stupid, Spendius. It is a logical question for which you have no reasonable answer, so you are attempting to disparage it rather than deal with it. Frankly, you are doing a very poor job of disparaging it.

As for discrediting Jesus...that is absurd. I have already offered my supposition as to why Jesus and the others did not condemn slavery. It is my opinion that they did not condemn slavery because the god they worshiped told them there was nothing wrong with slavery.

That is not discrediting Jesus at all. It is simply saying that he (and the others) did not think of slavery as something wrong or immoral. They thought it was moral and correct, because their god said it was.

C'mon, Spendius. You know you read every word I write. You can respond to me. We both know you are way off base on this issue. You can acknowledge that. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are wrong.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 07:36 am
I came across this the other day about life in Galilee where Jesus preached his 3 year mission. Jerusalem was in Judea. 4 days journey. Half of Galilee's population was Pagan and controlled the main centres. To the Jews in Judea Galilee was the outback. To anybody in Judea a Galilean stood out because of his speech and manners. Like a Texan in NYC. Or a New Jerseyian loudmouth in the local pub.

Quote:
Slavery was common. For the most part, people were either born into slavery, a prisoner of war, or sold themselves into slavery to pay off debts. “Unlike pre-Civil War America, in the Roman world slaves could own property, earn money, and often save enough to buy their own freedom.”


One form of slavery in not like another. In those days it wouldn't have been associated with skin colour. It was like the weather. Or the traffic. It was taken for granted. What wasn't taken for granted was the love of each other and compassion for the oppressed. The Man died a horrible death for preaching that and people have the nerve to ask why he didn't condemn slavery in order to satisfy some inner need they have.

I'm not bothered that people don't think the thread question is anachronistic. It is anachronistic. As a fact. And extremely so.

It has one purpose. It is to keep in countenance all the drivel the thread-master has spouted in the past. Not one jot or tittle of which ever dare address itself to the functioning of an orderly society for the very good reason that it has no answer regarding an alternative way of proceeding. It just blasts away like a pop-gun shooting at Mt. Everest for the aforesaid reason.

Any Jesuit priest could take the part.

Was Jesus shagging all those women, maybe a couple of the disciples too, boozing and gluttonising and going from gig to gig working the credulousness of the frightened people because it was better than sawing planks of wood in a sweaty, **** filled workshop? He for sure had a few groupies. One bathed his feet and dried them with her hair.

Now that is more like a question imo.

But He could see something which we have yet to see. What He didn't know was that the Australian aboriginies had been in the Kingdom of God for thousands of years. Why make the Earth bear fruit?

Look how so many people take pride in being able to live in the wilderness. And how many watch the programmes some of them make when they take a film crew with them. Some do it for real. Rockie seems closest to the type on A2K. Look at all the nature programmes. And look most at their audiences.

I'll have a micro-waved jam roly-poly with a pot of Tesco custard if it's alright.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 07:41 am
@spendius,
Quote:
One form of slavery in not like another.


Ahhh...so Spendius is okay with slavery as long as it is a form of slavery of which he approves.

By the way, Spendius, are you absolutely positive that any slave could buy its way out of slavery? Are you absolutely positive that no slave could be kept a slave forever...like the god of the Bible prescribed?

And after answering those questions, perhaps you would like to tackle this one:

Why did Jesus NOT condemn slavery?
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 07:43 am
@spendius,
Quote:
It has one purpose. It is to keep in countenance all the drivel the thread-master has spouted in the past.


No wonder you are avoiding answering this question!
0 Replies
 
 

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