4
   

Crime Decreases As Numbers of Gun Owners Rise

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 10:34 am
@OmSigDAVID,
It lists all the crimes.
It also give a total. That total was 403
Are you incapable of spending the 1 minute required looking for the total at the end of the first table which spans several pages?

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 10:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Wait a minute, there: the way u wrote that
convictions r unnecessary. I can CHARGE u with sodomizing Abraham Lincoln

If you prefer, we can look at the conviction record at the end of each 12 month period.
2005 - 403 charged, 12 found not guilty 169 guilty, 160 pending and 62 dismissed.
2008 - 1319 charged, 22 found not guilty, 396 found guilty, 677 pending

So... convictions of CCW holders increased by 235% from 2005 to 2008. And the number of CCW holders waiting or avoiding trials increased by 423%

Further, we can see that suicides for CCW holders increased by 26% over that same time period.


Quote:
I wish that he were within access, to defend himself.
He would be unable to unless he is willing to accept my statistics and conclusions as valid.

Don't you think we can conclude that CCW license holders are increasing their criminal activities based on the statistics which I provided links to. Lott failed to provide any links to his stats.


parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 10:50 am
@parados,
The fact that suicides for CCW license holders has increased by 26% over a 3 year period can certainly lead to the conclusion that CCW license holders are becoming more mentally unstable over time.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 10:57 am
Quote:
May 2010 - Crime: Carrying firearms across state lines with the intent to start a riot
Madisonville, Tennessee - What do you do when you feel that your country has been taken over by a Democrat not born in the United States?

Well, if you are Darren Wesley Huff, conceal carry permit holder, you attempt to take over Madisonville, Tennessee, population 3,939.

The problem started for Darren when he heard that a fellow 'birther', Walter Fitzpatrick, had been arrested for inciting a riot when he attempted to make citizen's arrests against those individuals who had refused in a grand jury to consider the case against President Obama for treason. Fitzpatrick's previous legal history included being court-martialed from the Navy.

Darren was so outraged that his fellow Oath Keeper had been arrested that he decided that he and some friends would start out from his Dalton, Georgia home armed with three handguns and an AK-47 rifle and take over the Monroe County courthouse in Madisonville. He not only made the decision to go through with the plan, he told everyone about his plan, his bank manager and a local radio talk show. He even told the police officer that pulled him over for a traffic stop. Darren went to far as to tell the officer he was willing to "die for his rights".

When Darren and his friends showed up at the courthouse they were shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that they were seriously outnumbered by local state and federal officials.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:02 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Quote:
May 2010 - Crime: Carrying firearms across state lines with the intent to start a riot
Madisonville, Tennessee - What do you do when you feel that your country has been taken over by a Democrat not born in the United States?

Well, if you are Darren Wesley Huff, conceal carry permit holder, you attempt to take over Madisonville, Tennessee, population 3,939.

The problem started for Darren when he heard that a fellow 'birther', Walter Fitzpatrick, had been arrested for inciting a riot when he attempted to make citizen's arrests against those individuals who had refused in a grand jury to consider the case against President Obama for treason. Fitzpatrick's previous legal history included being court-martialed from the Navy.

Darren was so outraged that his fellow Oath Keeper had been arrested that he decided that he and some friends would start out from his Dalton, Georgia home armed with three handguns and an AK-47 rifle and take over the Monroe County courthouse in Madisonville. He not only made the decision to go through with the plan, he told everyone about his plan, his bank manager and a local radio talk show. He even told the police officer that pulled him over for a traffic stop. Darren went to far as to tell the officer he was willing to "die for his rights".

When Darren and his friends showed up at the courthouse they were shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that they were seriously outnumbered by local state and federal officials.

Your point IS ???
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:05 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
The fact that suicides for CCW license holders has increased by 26% over a 3 year period can certainly [????] lead to the conclusion that CCW license holders are becoming more mentally unstable over time.
Do u impugn our right to end our human lives at times of our own choosing??????





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:26 pm
@parados,
David wrote:
Wait a minute, there: the way u wrote that
convictions r unnecessary. I can CHARGE u with sodomizing Abraham Lincoln
parados wrote:
If you prefer, we can look at the conviction record at the end of each 12 month period.
2005 - 403 charged, 12 found not guilty 169 guilty, 160 pending and 62 dismissed.
2008 - 1319 charged, 22 found not guilty, 396 found guilty, 677 pending
Parados, u have failed
to execute the most CRITICAL function
in understanding significance in these numbers, to wit:
the use of GUNS in the execution of crimes of violence,
as distinct from being late in paying alimony or leaving his driver's license at home when he drives away.







parados wrote:
So... convictions of CCW holders increased by 235% from 2005 to 2008.
And the number of CCW holders waiting or avoiding trials increased by 423%
That figure has no significance unless u show that crimes of violence were involved, e.g. robbery or murder.






parados wrote:
Further, we can see that suicides for CCW holders increased by 26% over that same time period.
Do u OBJECT to THEIR ending their own lives, if thay so choose?????
What 's rong with that??
I 'd expect u to CHEER @ time it happens.





Quote:
I wish that he were within access, to defend himself.
parados wrote:
He would be unable to unless he is willing to accept my statistics and conclusions as valid.
That is a very arrogant n presumptuous thing to say.





parados wrote:
Don't you think we can conclude that CCW license holders are increasing their criminal activities based on the statistics which I provided links to.
U have not convinced me,
especially without separating out crimes of predatory violence
in which thay USED their guns.




parados wrote:
Lott failed to provide any links to his stats.
I wish that he had. That's annoying.





David
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 04:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I see you haven't asked to see the list of crimes Lott used in his statistics or which were committed by CCW holders.
Now you want to argue which crimes should be included in my statistics?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 04:57 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
I see you haven't asked to see the list of crimes Lott used in his statistics or which were committed by CCW holders.
Now you want to argue which crimes should be included in my statistics?
I believe that he has indicated that thay were crimes of personal violence e.g. robbery n murder,
but I don 't remember where proof of that is to be found.

I wish that he were here to defend his own position.
I don 't believed that I 'm sufficiently well informed about it to do it justice.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 07:10 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I indicated mine were crimes. eg.. something that violated the law.
I DID present where proof of it could be found.

Lott is a putz. He misuses statistics and fools believe him.
This a piece that tears apart Lott's "More guns, less crime" thesis and basically states his math is bogus because as done it has a 30% or more margin of error.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w9336
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 08:06 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
I indicated mine were crimes. eg.. something that violated the law.
I DID present where proof of it could be found.
On examination thereof, it turned out to include such "crimes" as:
"Falsifing a record on a used motor vehicle part" instead of kidnapping or murder.


parados wrote:
Lott is a putz. He misuses statistics and fools believe him.
This a piece that tears apart Lott's "More guns, less crime" thesis and basically states his math is bogus because as done it has a 30% or more margin of error.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w9336
The problem is that I am not sufficiently knowledgeable of his published work
as to competently defend it as it deserves. I 've had no training in statistics.

Fortunately for the good side, the freedom side,
I need not do that because the USSC has already found in favor of truth and freedom
in the HELLER and the McDONNALD cases.

Let me be clear on this point:
even if it were true
that crimes of violence remained the same or increased
in the presence of gun freedom, I woud NOT relinquish my right to fight back
against the predatory violence of criminals or of animals. I urge every citizen
of every age, however old or young, to support his or her individual right to do so
and to possess the means of doing so, on an emergency basis.

By the US Constitution's Bill of Rights and by the most fundamental law of Nature:
that is an inalienable right.





David
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 08:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
On examination thereof, it turned out to include such "crimes" as:
"Falsifing a record on a used motor vehicle part" instead of kidnapping or murder.
Are you arguing that it isn't a crime?
Or are you arguing I cherry picked data?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 08:21 am
@parados,
David wrote:
On examination thereof, it turned out to include such "crimes" as:
"Falsifing a record on a used motor vehicle part" instead of kidnapping or murder.
parados wrote:
Are you arguing that it isn't a crime?
Or are you arguing I cherry picked data?
I am arguing that
in reference to gun possession (which is the general subject matter of this thread)
reference to crimes is likely to be taken to mean crimes in which guns are used,
not crimes of paperwork; ergo the statistic is misleading, tending toward deception.





David
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 08:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
So.. you are admitting that CCW holders are NOT less likely to commit crimes?

Or are you arguing that they less likely to use guns while committing crimes?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 11:56 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
So.. you are admitting that CCW holders are NOT less likely to commit crimes?
I imagine that it is about the same
for "Falsifing a record on a used motor vehicle part"
or for disagreements with the IRS, but qua violent crimes
I 'm pretty sure that thay have been unusually clean.



parados wrote:
Or are you arguing that they less likely to use guns while committing crimes?
Yes; e.g., in the aforesaid paperwork crimes, thay r unlikely to use guns,
but not less likely than the rest of the public.


I question my wisdom in posting threads concerning statistics,
in that I know that I have no academic preparation
to wield statistics effectively. I 'm no John Lott.

I believe that I coud prove Lott 's points,
if I were a better trained statistician than I am.

In ANY case, it appears to be agreed all the way around
( please CORRECT me, if I am rong )
that, regardless of leftist predictions of rampant carnage
resulting from the enactment of CCW laws,
NO dire results have ensued.

Do u dispute that, Parados ??





David
parados
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 12:14 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
And how many people do you think have been killed by CCW holders in the last 4 years? ZERO?
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 12:17 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
And how many people do you think have been killed by CCW holders in the last 4 years? ZERO?
I have no information on that.

I hope that thay have killed a lot of violent criminals
and violent predatory animals (in self defense, when necessary).





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 12:19 pm
@parados,
Y didn 't u answer my question, in good faith?
I asked u if u disputed that.





David
parados
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 01:00 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Do I dispute your bait and switch?
I ignored it because of what it is.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2011 01:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Here are 12 law enforcement officers killed by CCW holders
www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwlawenforcement.pdf
 

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