10
   

It is a done deal....the state is going to Kill Davis

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 12:11 am
@98oneil98,
WELCOME to the forum, Mr. O'Neil.

98oneil98 wrote:
I don’t think they should have the death penalty,
because a lot of the people who do go to these prisons,
they get put onto death row!
How do thay decide WHICH ONES
to put on Death Row??



98oneil98 wrote:
Half of them did nothing wrong and are dying for no reason!
I have strong views and would never agree to the death penalty.
IF your favorite person
were murdered,
wud u feel a need to avenge him or her ?
The way that it was explained to me, when I was a kid in school,
is that we shud leave it to government (the judicial system)
to decide who is guilty (rather than the victim of crime)
and to decide the degree of penalty, inasmuch as
the judiciary is more dispassionate and impartial
than one of the participants in the events
that led to judicial resolution (i.e., crime),
but if government DEFAULTS upon that responsibility
to avenge the victim, then (morally) the right to get even reverts to the victim.



98oneil98 wrote:
Many people die for nothing.
A lot of people, who murder someone else, may deserve to die,
but I do think that everyone has a chance to put their life back on track,
What about the right of the victim to get even???


98oneil98 wrote:
they might have something wrong with them and also some of them
might have killed that person for self-defence.
That 's what the criminal trial is for.


98oneil98 wrote:
So why do they need to be put onto the death penalty?
The criminals don t need that to happen.
Their needs are: air, water, food, sleep etc.
The death penalty is a desire of the victim, or his survivors,
not of the perpetrator.



98oneil98 wrote:
I don’t think it’s fair, and I don’t think it should happen.
If someone murders your favorite person,
then what is fair to do to him ??





David

izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 03:13 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Life imprisonment is punishment enough, it gives the Judiciary the moral high ground. A lot of killers would prefer death to life imprisonment anyway. The Moslem fanatics who murdered drummer Lee Rigby wanted to be martyrs. They hung around after killing him, and attacked the police hoping to be killed in the ensuing gun battle. They failed in that respect, and now, instead of the heavenly paradise they imagined they're going to have to spend the rest of their lives contemplating their actions from a prison cell.

There's also the case of miscarriages of justice. If you lock up an innocent man for x amount of years, at least you can release him and try to pay some compensation. You can't do that if he's been executed. How would you feel if your favourite person had been murdered and an innocent man had been wrongfully executed?

Capital punishment does not act as a deterrent. People, (religious fundamentalists aside,) don't commit crimes in the expectation of getting caught. They think they'll get away with it. What deters crime is the likelihood of being caught. Take speeding for example, if you kept the speeding laws as they are, but put speed cameras and traffic police all over the country, speeding would go down. If you had no cameras, no traffic police, but made speeding a capital offence, would less people speed?
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 07:15 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Life imprisonment is punishment enough,
For many decades, I thawt that death
was the most severe penalty and the most harsh revenge.
I was very, very pleased at the electrocutions of the Rosenbergs in 1953.
I 'm still glad that we killed them for what thay did.
However, in more recent years I 've begun to wonder
whether life in prison was and is a more severe penalty,
if there be no parole
.

Do u know the black actor named: "Mr. T" ?
In an interview by Barbara Walters,
he mentioned that his mother had complained
of having gotten mugged (that means assaulted n robbed)
by a designated individual in her naborhood.
He said that he and his brothers tracked him down
and: "u won't see him no more." I RESPECTED him for that.


izzythepush wrote:
it gives the Judiciary the moral high ground.
I dont care about that; judges r only agents
of those who were abused, or in your case: agents of the King.


izzythepush wrote:
A lot of killers would prefer death to life imprisonment anyway.
I suspect that that's true.


izzythepush wrote:
The Moslem fanatics who murdered drummer Lee Rigby wanted to be martyrs.
They hung around after killing him, and attacked the police hoping
to be killed in the ensuing gun battle. They failed in that respect,
and now, instead of the heavenly paradise they imagined they're
going to have to spend the rest of their lives contemplating
their actions from a prison cell.
Yea; thay might be proud of their actions; yes ???



izzythepush wrote:
There's also the case of miscarriages of justice.
If you lock up an innocent man for x amount of years,
at least you can release him and try to pay some compensation.
Yes.


izzythepush wrote:
You can't do that if he's been executed.
Well, when his innocence is discovered,
then he shud be executed. (To execute means to carry out,
or to follow out, like a bar room bouncer follows him out of the prison,
whereas convicted murderers r killed, to execute their death warrants.)

( A collateral anecdote: having been retired from the practice of law,
I participated in the successful Republican campaign for Governor of NY.
Among the principles for which we campaigned was a return to inflicting
the death penalty
. The incumbent Governor was very anti-death penalty.
We gathered for a Victory Party, the day after Election Night,
discussing what jobs each of us wanted. One boy, admittedly crazy
(under active psychiatric treatment) kept saying that he wanted
to be the Executioner. )


izzythepush wrote:
How would you feel if your favourite person had been murdered
and an innocent man had been wrongfully executed?
Well, after he has been successfully executed,
he can find a good lawyer to examine and review his best options
under the circumstances of fact and law that then and there exist.
After he has been executed, with his innocence established,
he can sue the government; hopefully, he is still young enuf to enjoy the fruit of his litigation.



izzythepush wrote:
Capital punishment does not act as a deterrent.
U probably get a bell-curved distribution on that,
the same as almost everything else.



izzythepush wrote:
People, (religious fundamentalists aside,) don't commit crimes
in the expectation of getting caught. They think they'll get away with it.
Agreed.


izzythepush wrote:
What deters crime is the likelihood of being caught.
Take speeding for example, if you kept the speeding laws as they are,
but put speed cameras and traffic police all over the country,
speeding would go down.
Yes.


izzythepush wrote:
If you had no cameras, no traffic police,
but made speeding a capital offence, would less people speed?
Kiddest thou me????
I don t see the father of 5 driving his wife n family
along speeding, if he can be legally killed for so doing.

I doubt that his wife wud let him do that, or the kids either.
If he did, thay cud blackmail him.





David
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 08:50 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David, don't hide behind words. You know I meant execute to mean killing. We are aware of Mr. T, he was in a Rocky Movie, the A Team and more recently Snickers, (hate that word, I still call them Marathons) advertisement.

I wasn't seriously considering making speeding a capital offence, just using it as an example.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 10:13 am
@izzythepush,
It's hard to tell whether Dave is feigning obtuseness or if it's genuine.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 10:23 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
David, don't hide behind words.
You know I meant execute to mean killing.
We are aware of Mr. T, he was in a Rocky Movie, the A Team
and more recently Snickers, (hate that word, I still call them Marathons) advertisement.

I wasn't seriously considering making speeding a capital offence,
just using it as an example.
Was my answer insufficiently lucid?
Were u annoyed ?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 10:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Lucid ain't you, Om.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 11:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
No, I've come to expect such obfuscation.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 11:20 am
@izzythepush,
Talk like that sure ain't gonna get Sig over to fill your spare bedroom, Iz.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 03:50 pm
@izzythepush,
Obfuscation of my having agreed
with most of what u asserted ??????
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 04:29 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Obfuscation in that you insisted on using your own definition of execute in order to avoid the question.

How would you feel if the state killed an innocent man? Would you feel more guilty if you had campaigned for that innocent man's killing in the mistaken belief he was guilty?

Try to actually get in touch of your feelings with this. You're very good at keeping things at arms length, and reducing everything to an intellectual argument, but just try to imagine how you would feel.

Imagine waking up in the middle of the night, knowing an innocent man was dead, and had it not been for your spirited, and highly articulate, campaign to have the death sentence imposed, he would be alive today. And, yes, you can tell yourself that you were lied to by the prosecutor, had you been aware of the facts you would have campaigned for his acquittal, but that's not what happened.

If that had happened how would you square it with your conscience? Could you square it with your conscience, because I know I couldn't?

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 07:21 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
If that had happened how would you square it with your conscience? Could you square it with your conscience, because I know I couldn't?


You have no problem with all the people slaughtered by your criminal lapdog government that woofed its way into Afghanistan and murdered who knows how many, Mr Compassionate.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 08:28 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Obfuscation in that you insisted on using your own definition
of execute in order to avoid the question.
1. I ANSWERED the question.
I dont mind doing it again,
but Y dont u just take another look at it ??
Your post sounded a little mad, tho I thought u 'd be pleased that we agreed.

2. That word was defined long before I was born.
I did not re-engineer it. I applied its etymologically original historical meaning,
i.e. to carry out; "ex" means OUT in Latin.
(In the case at hand, it means to carry out the death warrant
by killing the prisoner.)


izzythepush wrote:
How would you feel if the state killed an innocent man?
Sad n outraged.



izzythepush wrote:
Would you feel more guilty if you had campaigned
for that innocent man's killing in the mistaken belief he was guilty?
If I had, then probably yes,
but it does not work that way. Its just not done; i.e., folks dont write in
saying: "Your Honor, that guy is a bum! Kill him. Kill him."
The court imposes sentence without bloodthirsty correspondents telling it what to do.
(That does not apply to those who write in seeking for mercy.)
There are victim impact statements rendered sometimes in open court.

izzythepush wrote:
Try to actually get in touch of your feelings with this.
Well, DEFINITIONALLY, I must be in touch with them
because if I did not FEEL my feelings,
then thay 'd not exist; do u agree with that, Izzy ?




izzythepush wrote:
You're very good at keeping things at arms length,
and reducing everything to an intellectual argument,
Thank u, Izzy.
That 's very nice of u to say.



izzythepush wrote:
but just try to imagine how you would feel.
OK.




izzythepush wrote:
Imagine waking up in the middle of the night, knowing an innocent man was dead, and had it not been for your spirited, and highly articulate, campaign to have the death sentence imposed, he would be alive today. And, yes, you can tell yourself that you were lied to by the prosecutor, had you been aware of the facts you would have campaigned for his acquittal, but that's not what happened.
I did not even do THAT to the Rosenbergs.
On reflection, I shud have; I 'd be proud of it.
I 've heard that in 1953, there were more pictures of the Rosenbergs in Russia
than there were of Stalin. I saw them in the newsreels.



izzythepush wrote:
If that had happened how would you square it with your conscience?
Could you square it with your conscience, because I know I couldn't?
That is among the things that it has never occurred
to me to do, nor that I have in my plans. Accordingly, I can disregard it.





David
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2014 08:35 pm
@OmSigDAVID,

izzythepush wrote:
Could you square it with your conscience, because I know I couldn't?

Izzythepush is perpetrating a fraud. His claim is blatantly untrue.

He gleefully supports injustice at every opportunity. If he were to help get an innocent person executed, that would be the happiest day of his life.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2014 03:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
izzythepush wrote:
Would you feel more guilty if you had campaigned
for that innocent man's killing in the mistaken belief he was guilty?
If I had, then probably yes,


That's what I wanted to know. Public opinion always has a bearing on sentencing in high profile cases like murders. It would be naïve to believe otherwise. That's true over here as well, there was a recent case where a man with Asperger's was killed with a single punch in a dispute over cycling on the pavement. It was believed the perpetrator's sentence was too lenient, and a couple of tabloid papers took up the campaign. The home secretary has taken up the case, and the final sentencing will be much harsher.

It's best to ignore Oralboy, he's a particularly loathsome individual who has genocidal fantasies, likes to insult innocent murder victims and their grieving parents, has dark desires about killing babies, and now it appears he's projecting his lust for abusing little boys on to poor old McTag. Oralboy has no redeeming features whatsoever, and clearly demonstrates how warped and twisted a person can become if they're still a virgin when they reach late middle age.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2014 04:34 am
@izzythepush,
In America, its a little un-usual to have much of a campaign
to influence a court qua sentencing. I cant say that it is O,
or deny that a few crackpots will do something odd, but it is
rather off the beaten path to get involved in that. Generally,
people just take a wait-and-see attitude qua how a court will sentence.

Exceptions to the above are campaigns against inflicting
the death penalty or writing letters for other mercy in sentencing.
Even that is relatively small.

For the entirety of my life, it has never occurred to me,
as a citizen, to get involved in telling any court what to do
qua sentencing -- not even a post card.

I 'm gonna be away for most of the weekend; going to see some people,
leaving latter today; probably be back Sunday or Monday.





David
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2014 05:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
For the entirety of my life, it has never occurred to me,
as a citizen, to get involved in telling any court what to do
qua sentencing -- not even a post card.


This was a hypothetical scenario where the victim was someone very close to you. Not the usual case where you are a dispassionate third party

Have a great weekend.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Apr, 2014 05:31 am
@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:
For the entirety of my life, it has never occurred to me,
as a citizen, to get involved in telling any court what to do
qua sentencing -- not even a post card.
izzythepush wrote:

This was a hypothetical scenario where the victim was someone very close to you.
That 's what defense counsel is for.
That 's HIS job.


izzythepush wrote:
Not the usual case where you are a dispassionate third party

Have a great weekend.
Thank u, Izzy.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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