Are physicalists & materialists more likely to support abortion & euthanasia & killing the enemy?

@bigstew,

bigstew wrote:

I'm a materialist, and I don't think the materialist position per se commits one to supporting all three actions unquestionably. Materialists just support the metaphysical view of closed physical system. What that means for moral reasoning is up for debate.

What is your view on determinism then? Morals would surely be determined not reasoned in debate. Statistical analysis should suffice to determine how the majority of materialists will act. What do you think?

1 Reply

@igm,

Quote:

What is your view on determinism then?

The world acts in a causal manner.

Quote:

Morals would surely be determined not reasoned in debate.

This is a 180. It should read morals are reasoned in debate, and determined as such.

Quote:

Statistical analysis should suffice to determine how the majority of materialists will act.

This supposes two things: 1) determinate actions are predictable in a narrow sense and 2) we can reasonably predict those actions through data analysis.

Quote:

What do you think?

I wouldn't worry about it.

1 Reply

@bigstew,

I'm talking about lack of free will.

1 Reply

@igm,

Interesting---Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson was a Presbyterian and a strong advocate of determinism, yet he also ordered the first executions for desertion during the Civil War.

It seems to me that if the 'Big Kahuna' predestined all the actions of his creation then their desertion was ordained, and it was not the action of an conscious individual.

Consequently, is execution the moral response to an ordained action?

By extension is execution of an individual the proper response if the crime was ordained by a superior being?

Moreover if predestination is valid, is abortion and euthanasia also predestined?

Rap

1 Reply

@raprap,

raprap wrote:

Interesting---Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson was a Presbyterian and a strong advocate of determinism, yet he also ordered the first executions for desertion during the Civil War.

It seems to me that if the 'Big Kahuna' predestined all the actions of his creation then their desertion was ordained, and it was not the action of an conscious individual.

Consequently, is execution the moral response to an ordained action?

By extension is execution of an individual the proper response if the crime was ordained by a superior being?

Moreover if predestination is valid, is abortion and euthanasia also predestined?

Rap

I understand predestination as being the belief that God has already chosen who will go to heaven and your actions don't change that. Also no one knows who God has chosen but God. Is this your understanding?

So any actions will not change whether you do or do not go to heaven God actually decided, he predetermined who will be saved and who will not, so acting morally wouldn't make any difference. Calvinists though, believe that because they believe in predestination their good actions may show that they have been chosen by God to go to heaven but they also understand that these actions do not cause that to happen.

2 Replies

@igm,

Then by your determinist criteria, the answer to your question

Quote:

Are physicalists & materialists more likely to support abortion & euthanasia & killing the enemy?

is no.

Why? Because abortion, euthanasia & killing the enemy is already predetermined, and a physicalist and materialist don't believe that a predestined dog will hunt.

Rap.

1 Reply

@raprap,

raprap wrote:

Then by your determinist criteria, the answer to your question
Quote:
Are physicalists & materialists more likely to support abortion & euthanasia & killing the enemy?
is no.

Why? Because abortion, euthanasia & killing the enemy is already predetermined, and a physicalist and materialist don't believe that a predestined dog will hunt.

Rap.

No... predestination is a form of determinism which I wasn't thinking of when I wrote the topic title, I never considered the ‘God’ angle. I was looking at it from the philosophic ‘strong deterministic’ angle and whether more people who held those views would be more likely to see the beginning and end of life as ‘grey areas’ so be more likely to support the actions I’ve mentioned in the title. Also seeing the ’enemy’ as just a machine that’s faulty because the enemy must be seeing things incorrectly and so it’s a danger that needs to be remove.

0 Replies

@igm,

igm wrote:

I understand predestination as being the belief that God has already chosen who will go to heaven and your actions don't change that. Also no one knows who God has chosen but God. Is this your understanding?

So any actions will not change whether you do or do not go to heaven God actually decided, he predetermined who will be saved and who will not, so acting morally wouldn't make any difference. Calvinists though, believe that because they believe in predestination their good actions may show that they have been chosen by God to go to heaven but they also understand that these actions do not cause that to happen.

Rap, this is not my view it's just my understanding of what predestination is; as you mentioned it,... but I define it diffently to you; so I explained my definition of what predestination means.

Also see my new post above this one.

0 Replies

Are physicalists & materialists more likely to support abortion & euthanasia & killing the enemy?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know