wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 09:19 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

AHA! I've been doing research and gathering up info/ammo to take to the doc re switching from Plavix to aspirin. I need to look at the individual studies in the references, but I found this for comparing Plavix (clopidogrel) vs aspirin.

Quote:
Stroke

For patients who have had a stroke or a transient ischemic attack, several trials have compared aspirin or clopidogrel alone with an aspirin-clopidogrel or aspirin-dipyridamole combination.7,11-14

In patients with ischemic stroke or TIA within the prior 3 months, the evidence favors clopidogrel or aspirin-dipyridamole. Use aspirin for most patients with a more remote history of stroke.





I believe edgarblythe had a thread on the use of aspirin for this. I will go look for it.

I edited this post to give a link to edgarblythe's thread. It sounds extremely negative, but I believe edgar only wanted people to take caution when using aspirin for that reason.

http://able2know.org/topic/9788-1#post-292526
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 09:23 pm
My aspirin thread has lots of posts. Some may be helpful. Maybe not. I don't recall.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:08 am
@wandeljw,
Thanks, jw, I remember a bit about that thread. I'll take a look.

There's a difference between primary and secondary prophylaxis. There's a lot of evidence that indicates that aspirin therapy as a primary preventative (prevent a first-time event) has as much downside as possible upside, if not more. Any anticoagulant therapy (primary or secondary to an event) increases the risk of hemorrhagic stroke. The problem with secondary prophylaxis is weighing the risks of a second ischemic or cardiac event with the increased risk of a hemorrhagic event. In some ways, it's largely a crap shoot when it comes to a single individual. There are numerous studies that look at large numbers of patients and say, "Overall...", but that doesn't apply to an individual.

I don't have to worry about heart disease. There isn't a single case of coronary artery disease or heart attack on either side of my family. My mother had a pacemaker put in in her 80s, but that's it. My elevated cholesterol could reasonably be ignored and I probably don't need to be on a statin other than during the situation I described where I was losing weight and possibly throwing off plaques. During my hosp admission last year I had a transesophogeal echocardiogram which showed no buildup whatsoever in my arteries - even after years of having an elevated cholesterol. I do have to worry about high blood pressure, stroke and blood clots. I have a strong family history of those on both sides. So, for me, it comes down to preventing the next event and choosing which therapy is most likely to be successful with the least negative impact.

I've pretty much decided to keep my primary md out of the decision making loop. She didn't prescribe any of the meds. They were prescribed by the consulting neurologist at the hospital and I'm due to have a follow-up with him anyway. I'll continue on my merry weight loss journey and make an appt with him for mid-October. In the meantime I've printed out a bunch of articles on decision-making for clopidogrel vs aspirin for secondary prophylaxis.

As to other portions of The Plan:
I did the yoga dvd last night. I was surprised at how much of it I could do. Parts of the leg stretches/moves were difficult because of my knees, but I did what I could and I felt much better afterwards, both for having done it and for what it accomplished. It's a long (90 min) dvd with multiple components. The first one is a 30 min stretch (all sitting) that I think would be wonderful even as a standalone. This is the one I purchased.

I also dusted off my old 8 Minutes in the Morning book which has a terrific exercise component that takes 8 minutes (in the morning). It takes two opposing muscle groups each day and works them in sequence. Monday is chest/back so I did 4 sets (12 each) of window sill push ups and seated rows (as in a boat). The concept is that one muscle group rests while the other, opposing one, works. Monday is also therapy pool day so I'll be soaking all my weary joints at midday.

Another way I hope to get myself out of the chair (and out of the house) is to sign up for some workshops/seminars. I used to go to a Wednesday morning religious studies class at a nearby interfaith center. It was the highlight of my week. The founder of the center (and teacher of our Wednesday morning sessions) passed away suddenly in May. I wasn't sure what they were going to do going forward but I got the catalog in the mail last week and the Wednesday morning program looks good. It will be different, for sure, but I'm sure the board will work hard to maintain the program as part of Ron's legacy.

In addition to that I found an adult education center in Northfield (about 20mins away) that offers a varied selection of programming. I signed up for a two week seminar on Jane Eyre in September and three weeks of Dostoevsky short stories in October. I'm busily re-reading Jane Eyre in preparation for the first class.

As to the emotional upheaval and baggage, I'm doing pretty well. The reading, the classes, the detoxing and physical moving, as well as looking forward with anticipation rather than despair is certainly doing it's thing.

In some ways, the last thing I need is more work to do, but I also have a new client. In other ways, it couldn't come at a better time.
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:37 am
@JPB,
You're approaching all this with much gusto - kudos to you, JPB!!
I am still worried about the medication though. When you see your neurologist, could you make a deal with him, where he continues to prescribe the Plavix for you even though your insurance will have elapsed later on? Plus they get so many samples from the pharma reps, he might be able to help you out. It's worth a try.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:43 am
@JPB,
You might also find out if there are generic meds that are nearly as effective.

My doctor wanted to put me on some horrendously expensive medication, but we ended up with a generic that still solved my issue for a fraction of the price.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:44 am
@CalamityJane,
Certainly! One of the other reasons he prescribed it originally was that he thought it was due to become available generically within 6 months. He was off by a year - the schedule has it due to be released as a generic in November of this year, but there's always the possibility that that won't happen. If it is then I can continue on with the Plavix, even if I have to pay the full cost for a month or two. I'd still like to have the discussion with him, however. A year's worth of 81mg aspirin can be purchased for under $2.00. But, you're right, it needs to be a health decision as well as a financial one.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:52 am
@DrewDad,
Hi DD,

See my comment to Jane above. You're right, though, there may be other generic anticoagulant therapies that are available generically. I know my father was on one much of his adult life. I'm sure he wasn't paying very much for it, although it was probably covered by his insurance, whatever it was.

cj - as to the mucho gusto, this is what happens when I spend months and months wallowing. I wallow away thinking about what I could be doing instead of wallowing. Then, by the time I'm sick of feeling sorry for myself, I'm ready to jump in all the way. Unfortunately, that sometimes results in things like broken legs from overdoing it. I'm trying to be Very Balanced and Careful in my approach.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  4  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:53 am
I wish I had some advice or expertise, but I got nuthin.
So I'll sign on for cheerleading.

Gimme a J!
Gimme a P!
Gimme a B!

What's that spell?
JPB!
What's that spell?
JPB!
I can't hear you!
JPB!

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooo GIRL!
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 10:04 am
@George,
You look lovely with your shorts and pom poms, George.

Thanks!
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 10:17 am
@JPB,
....but George should not rely on his shapely legs alone. Smile
Izzie
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:39 pm
@JPB,
(((((((((JPB)))))))))


all.the.way.step.at.a.time

x
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 06:22 am
@Izzie,
muah!

My leg is sore. It really doesn't like walking on asphalt. I'm going to give it a rest day today. I thought about driving somewhere to find a gravel or dirt path but I've got a ton of work today (end of month), so I'll just call a rest day. I'll do the 8MM which today is abs (standing crunches) and shoulders (flies with 3lb weights). Maybe I'll pull the bike out later if I have time, or do the yoga dvd.

I made my mother's homemade spaghetti sauce recipe for dinner last night. I used 93/7 hamburg and served it on spaghetti squash for myself and linguini for Mr B and M. Yummy! Lots of leftovers available.
George
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 07:00 am
@JPB,
How does it feel when you ride a stationary bike? (Other than boring, that is.)
George
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 07:02 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
....but George should not rely on his shapely legs alone. Smile

Yeah, I hate to be seen as just another pair of knock-out gams.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 07:29 am
@George,
I can ride a recumbant bike pretty much pain free. Upright stationary bikes or my own bike hurt my knees. Again, that's something that I have to drive someplace to get at, which I do when I'm motivated, but I'd much rather do something that's right out my door. The stationary bikes, treadmills, ellipticals (which I can't do at all) and other assorted torture devices at my club all have individual tvs. I sometimes put on Fox News and take my frustrations out on the machine Evil or Very Mad

edit: I noticed I didn't include stairclimbers in my list of torture devices. They're so awful they're not even on my radar.
George
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 07:38 am
@JPB,
I hate just about every stationary torture device, rowers excepted.

(Digression: I used to love watching folks use stairmasters in hotel
"fitness centers" and then take the elevator back to their rooms.)

So how's about treating yourself to a recumbant bike?
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 08:07 am
@George,
I could. I'd have to stick it in the basement (unfinished) or in the middle of the living room where I'd probably never use it because I'm never there. I also have a mental thing about buying equipment when I have full access at the health club. I'll keep that membership going because of the therapy pool. I'll look into a recumbant bike once winter comes and I'm looking for things to do inside.

I discovered the therapy pool about 1.5 years ago when a friend invited me to join her at her club on a special free guest day. The pool is about 20' by 20' and kept at a constant 94 degrees. Not hot tub hot, but much warmer than the larger lap pool. They have therapy classes and individual therapy and then open membership time when it's not otherwise booked for therapy. Ahhhhhhhh.... bliss...... The next day I woke up pain free for the first time in years. I joined the club the next day. Warm water therapy is often prescribed for arthritis. I don't do the classes, but I meet up with a group of folks every Monday at noon for an hour. I started The Plan last Monday morning. Yesterday was the first time any of these folks have seen me since then. I hadn't mentioned anything last week about a breaking out from my doldrums because I wasn't sure I was going to get through the first five days and I'd never talked about being in the doldrums. Yesterday, two of the regulars made off the cuff comments that I was looking good Very Happy
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 08:08 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I sometimes put on Fox News and take my frustrations out on the machine Evil or Very Mad


What a great idea! I'm using that one. (No I haven't gotten to the gym to take my frustrations out on anything yet. Target day is currently Thursday.)
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 08:15 am
@sozobe,
Yeah, I noticed that many of the tvs are tuned to Fox News. I couldn't figure it out. Can there really be that many people who watch Fox News? I turned it on to see what it was they were all so engrossed in. It was the best workout I'd ever had!
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 08:54 am
@JPB,
Actually I meant an on-the-road recumbant bike.
 

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