Miklos7
 
  1  
Sat 22 Mar, 2008 07:47 am
Sozobe, About C and J, above: they arrived at school with these problems; it is possible that another school or a mean-spirited teacher made them this way, but, more likely, this combination of self-centeredness, anger, and tantrums comes from something in the home. When I was teaching, I'd get very bored listening to my colleagues parent-bash, because I knew that my relationship with a student was often (although not always!) very much better than what was reported from elsewhere. If I had a continuing problem with a student, I made a point of telephoning his/her parents, to say I was puzzled by behaviors X,Y, and Z, and to ask if the parent(s) had any insights that would help their child have a happier time at school. More often than not (Sure, I ran into the occasional parent who was drunk at 3:00 PM, a sad situation that explained a lot), the parents had useful things to tell me (recent death of a beloved grandparent, an injury that had kept the student from active play for many weeks, a streak of orneriness that the parents themselves could not plumb, etc.), and, fairly often, the parent(s) asked to come in for a person-to-person chat. If it was at all appropriate, I asked the parent if the son or daughter could be present while we talked (this might not work well for most kids of Sozlet's age).
A 20-minute conversation with a parent can give a teacher a great deal of information--frequently enough detail to spot a source of the troublesome behavior. Every family situation is different, but I ran into many cases in which the kid was angry at the parent(s)--sometimes reasonably, sometimes not--and would bring this ugly mood to school and turn it on substitute targets, who, unfairly attacked, would grow angry in return.

When I read BBC on-line this morning, I remembered this thread, and I thought you might be interested in this article:

Spoilt children 'disrupt schools'
By Hannah Goff
BBC News, Manchester

Primary schoolchildren spoilt by their parents can cause disruption in the classroom by repeating manipulative behaviour used at home, a report says.

Research for the National Union of Teachers (NUT) suggested a minority of children threw tantrums, swore and were physically aggressive.

NUT boss Steve Sinnott is calling for more advice for parents who struggle to say "no" to their children.

The government says it recognises parents want more support.

Cambridge University held 60 interviews with staff and pupils in 10 schools.

'Over-indulged'

The report was released at the union's annual conference in Manchester.

It cited examples of children who stayed up to the early hours and played on violent computer games.

It described a mother who celebrated the fact she had been able to get her five-year-old to bed at 1am instead of his previous bedtime of 3am.

A youngster who is being trained at home to get their own way by throwing a tantrum - I think it is pretty easy to see the impact that would have in the classroom
Steve Sinnott, NUT general secretary
It also told of a seven-year-old who smashed up his Playstation in a tantrum, then spent a week pestering his mother until she bought him a new one.

The researchers said some parents simply could not say "no" when their children demanded televisions and computers in their bedrooms.

Others would do "anything to shut up their children just to get some peace", it said.

Mr Sinnott said the problem lay with parents who were struggling with little or no help to bring up their children in a heavily commercialised world.

He wants advertising aimed at children to be banned.

"Parents are trying to cope by indulging, or by over-indulging, their youngsters," he said.

"A youngster who is being trained at home to get their own way by throwing a tantrum - I think it is pretty easy to see the impact that would have in the classroom."

He urged teachers and schools to give parents reasonable advice, but he warned they could not do it alone, and urged the government to tackle the commercialisation of culture head-on.

Violent neighbourhoods

A spokesman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families said it recognised parents were under pressure to cope.

He said: "In the Children's Plan we learnt that parents want more support in managing the new pressures they face such as dealing with the internet and the modern commercial world, and letting their children play and learn whilst staying safe."

The spokesman said the government has also worked to give new powers to teachers to support them when it comes to disciplining students who act out.

The report's author Maurice Galeton said the problem was particularly acute where people lived in violent neighbourhoods.

The government has pressurised many parents into putting their children into childcare, probably at three months old, and have congratulated themselves that they have got parents back to work
Margaret Morrissey, National Confederation of Parent Teacher Associations

He said: "Very young parents in violent and deprived neighbourhoods without the network of support that others get ... [have] a huge level of stress in their lives."

Margaret Morrissey of the National Confederation of Parent Teacher Associations said the problem of classroom misbehaviour was "not just about inadequate parents".

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We are putting into reception classes, in many cases, children who are four years and two weeks old. These are, in many parents' eyes, very little children - almost babies.

"If you are in a situation where you have got to work, you can't be with your child and you can't be giving it the sort of values that the older generation did."

The report also found the methods schools used to deal with poor behaviour were not working.

Some used a system of rewards and penalties to encourage children, but they often led to those who behaved the worst winning rewards for doing very little.

Do you over-indulge your children? Have you any advice for other parents who struggle to discipline their children? Are you a teacher with experience of unruly pupils? Send your comments using the post form below:

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Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/education/7308909.stm

Published: 2008/03/22 12:35:24 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 22 Apr, 2008 02:59 pm
Man, so behind -- lots to catch up on. Need to get back in the habit.

Very minor note right now... I don't know if you (general "you") do this, but I've just kind of talked in sozlet's vicinity since she was a baby, not necessarily a conversation (conversations too since she's been old enough, but as a separate thing). Just sort of general commentary now and then, not always but when I'm making dinner and she's hanging out with me, for example.

Yesterday I was in that mode while making dinner and as a general observation sort of thing said "wow, these mangoes are actually ripe! It's been forever since I've bought some ripe mangoes." She said, "maybe they're finally in season." This was of course a reasonable response, but somehow brought home for me that she's becoming so much a PERSON, not just a kid. Hard to explain.


One other thing -- she's become addicted to Tintin comics and said the other day, "Captain Haddock* and Nick Charles** would sure get along well!" Thought it was probably not a comment that many kids would make circa 2008.

* Captain Haddock -- hard-drinking hero of Tintin comics
** Nick Charles -- hard-drinking hero of the Dashiell Hammett book "The Thin Man," later played by William Powell in several movies
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 22 Apr, 2008 03:09 pm
Since this started out as a "What Made You Smile Today" offshoot, a quickie that just happened -- there was a kid here for a playdate, whose mom was due to pick her up at 5. At about 4:58 a neighbor kid and her friend showed up and asked if sozlet could play. Then the playdate friend's mom showed up, so there was a nice clean transition -- playdate to neighbor kids over. They're in the backyard now, playing on the swing. (Love love love this weather...)
0 Replies
 
Heatwave
 
  1  
Thu 24 Apr, 2008 12:46 pm
Sozobe, I think it's waaaay cool that Sozlet is hooked onto Tintin comics! I don't think I started reading them till I was ...what 8 - 9? maybe? (Has she read the Castafiore Emerald - Bianca Castafiore=one of my all time fav characters; or ...I forget the title - maybe 'Land of Black Gold?- with the naughty little Prince Abdullah with his itching powder.) My siblings & I (and probably every Indian kid in India interesting in books) have read them ALL!

She will probably also enjoy the 'Asterix & Obelix' series of comics already - if she hasn't come across them already, that is. They're pretty awesome, as well.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Thu 24 Apr, 2008 10:43 pm
_Heatwave_ wrote:

She will probably also enjoy the 'Asterix & Obelix' series of comics already - if she hasn't come across them already, that is. They're pretty awesome, as well.


I wanted to be a menhir deliveryman when I was a kid.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 25 Apr, 2008 08:27 am
Ha!

Yep, Asterix and Obelix were my guys when I was a kid -- I didn't read Tintin until much later. E.G. was a total Tintin fan and still has some books -- sozlet read one and then wanted more more more!

We got seven volumes for her, with three Tintin stories per volume. We ordered them gradually and I didn't really pay attention to where they stopped -- how many volumes there were, total. We just discovered that the one she just finished is the last one.

She's heartbroken. Seriously, she's so upset. I had to give her a whole pep talk about how she can read them again (didn't get anywhere with that) and how there are so many fabulous books out there, books that she'll be just as upset to get to the end of but that she hasn't even STARTED yet. (That eventually got somewhere, as we discussed which books/ series she'll love -- E.G. and I came out with "Little House on the Prairie" simultaneously, talked about Narnia ["There are Narnia books???"], etc., etc.)

She's reading "Harriet the Spy" now and enjoying that.

She started reading "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH" in Florida but I left it on the plane <smacks forehead>, that one really grabbed her. (She was threatening to barf right after we landed but before we got to the gate, and already had in that situation on the way to Florida, I was focused on skedaddling out of there. Yes, a library book. <more smacks>)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 25 Apr, 2008 11:16 am
E.G. has been growing out his goatee for a while now, and it's getting rather wild 'n' crazy. (I approve of the fact that now that he has tenure he's feeling he can act out a bit more, sartorial-ly speaking, but I kind of wish he'd just wear earrings or something -- not a huge fan of facial hair.) (The reactions are interesting -- lots of people are not recognizing him! Other people are shocked, shocked. He's been deep undercover as Bland American Scientist for ages.)

Anyway, on the way to a friend's house the other day we stopped at a liquor store to pick up some booze. He went in while sozlet and I stayed in the car. Sozlet mused, "Ya know, these days, the only places Papa really blends in are <ticking off on fingers> liquor stores and <next finger> jail."
0 Replies
 
mac11
 
  1  
Fri 25 Apr, 2008 01:10 pm
Shocked
0 Replies
 
Tai Chi
 
  1  
Fri 25 Apr, 2008 04:41 pm
sozobe wrote:
Sozlet mused, "Ya know, these days, the only places Papa really blends in are <ticking> liquor stores and <next> jail."


sozobe, that is hilarious!
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Fri 25 Apr, 2008 10:51 pm
Bow ties go with goatees.

suggest it. See what sort of a reaction you get.
0 Replies
 
Miklos7
 
  1  
Sat 26 Apr, 2008 09:58 am
Sozobe,

Sozlet is a wit. Not just a budding wit, but a real, functioning wit. HowMoms cool!

I believe you can give yourself some serious credit for this. By running a constant commentary on events around the two of you, even before she was supposedly old enough to get the drift, you were strengthening and sensitizing in her mind all those deep circuits for the syntax of narrative. Her heightened sense of narrative connection is, along with native quickness, a source of her great facility with these topical zingers. I'll bet she can tell great stories, too! Parents who continually talk to and around their kids not only develop verbal children; they develop children who can rapidly make connections on narrative lines--sometimes very funny ones. Kids seem drawn to humorously "skewed" connections.
0 Replies
 
Miklos7
 
  1  
Sat 26 Apr, 2008 10:00 am
Oops. Dunno how that stray word got in there! It's just "How cool!"
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:12 pm
You're too kind, Miklos. :-)




We volunteered at Obama HQ today, writing postcards. Sozlet wrote one to E.G. and brought it home. I skimmed it and it started out about the same as others so I didn't pay much attention. Just read the whole thing:

    I wish I could vote for Obama for presadent because he is the best canadate to solve the problems we are faceing like dads comeing home late and being in the "doghose" by moms. So for the sake of dads VOTE FOR OBAMA!


(Spellings, punctuation etc faithfully reproduced.)
0 Replies
 
onyxelle
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:16 pm
sozobe wrote:
You're too kind, Miklos. :-)




We volunteered at Obama HQ today, writing postcards. Sozlet wrote one to E.G. and brought it home. I skimmed it and it started out about the same as others so I didn't pay much attention. Just read the whole thing:

    I wish I could vote for Obama for presadent because he is the best canadate to solve the problems we are faceing like dads comeing home late and being in the "doghose" by moms. So for the sake of dads VOTE FOR OBAMA!


(Spellings, punctuation etc faithfully reproduced.)


That's the cutest!

Everytime mr. and the youngest have a disagreement about something she said previously, she attributes it now her having 'misspoke'
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:16 pm
I love it! That's so cute, especially the spelling, as well as the new slogan

"For the sake of dads, vote for Obama!"
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:23 pm
Laughing So, Sozobe, why don't you tell us more about that doghouse ...
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:42 pm
Yeah, I thought that was catchy, CJane. I'm not sure exactly what Obama is going to DO about it, though...

Thomas, surely I've complained about that before? It's my number-one beef with my otherwise quite-nice husband:

1. E.G. sends an email at say 6:15 saying "leaving now." (Baseline is he's supposed to be home by 6, but that pretty much never happens. That's not even what makes me mad though, the following is what makes me mad. So to get back to it...)

2. I go ahead and either finish getting dinner ready or get dinner ready based on when he SHOULD be home, according to his email.

3. The time at which he SHOULD get home comes and passes. I start to get mad.

4. I check email. Nothing.

5. I get madder.

6. I check email again. "Sorry, got stuck talking to ___, leaving now."

7. I flare my nostrils and tell sozlet, "let's eat."

8. We finish. No E.G.

9. We clean up.

10. He walks in the door and apologizes up and down and says "just as I was leaving ___ finally finished that plot and I'd promised him to look at it and..." as I glare at him and sozlet says "you are in sooooo much trouble...!"

What drives me crazy is that it's all based on when HE says he'll be home! If he won't be home until 8, all he has to do is say that and I'll make alternate plans!

He's been getting better since he got tenure (and is a little less driven) but it still comes up once in a while. Grrr...
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 07:11 pm
Actually, I haven't heard this particular pattern.

But it sounds like standard physicist time management: "I'm confident the space-time continuum has recently changed in such a way that things will now work out as I plan them to kinda work out. The zillion precedents to the contrary don't apply." I myself was convinced until 7.15 pm today that I'd be in the gym at 7.30. I am writing this at work, at 9:11 in my time zone; my gym closed 11 minutes ago.

But I'm leaving now.

PS: It's good to know Obama will fix all this.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Tue 29 Apr, 2008 07:32 pm
That also fits with playwright time management... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Wed 30 Apr, 2008 02:07 am
You should send postcard that to Obama. I reckon its got marketing legs.
0 Replies
 
 

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