41
   

He’s going to have two daddies

 
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 05:13 am
@BillRM,
My problem is that I was sending a message of support to JCboy, and it was hijacked by someone who does not know what they're talking about.

I'm fairly broad minded, and have yet to meet anyone who has a problem with banning videos of rape, torture and bestiality in this country. That is until I met you, who seems to see it as some sort of assault on our freedom. I can't see why any normal person would be so bothered about the rights of perverts and rapists. And the simple answer is, no normal person would. If you want to do something positive regarding the welfare of children, you should keep well away from them, and keep your pig ignorant mouth shut.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 05:59 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
who has a problem with banning videos of rape, torture and bestiality in this country


First what the hell does that have to do with if children on the whole are better off with two sex role models?

Now to deal with you’re off tropic comment.

So you wish to control the material available to the 40 or 30 percents of women who enjoy rape fantasies?

Had you ever read the so call romance novels that some women consume like candy?

Then we have Hawkeye and his wife who both are into SM games are you going to used the state power to stop them and others such from living that life style if they care to or just from making home videos?

Sorry unlike you I am not into dictating other adult’s sexual fantasies or the material that meet those fantasy needs as long as no real harm come to anyone in producing those materials.I in fact refused to support the state interfering with anyone sexual fantasies no matter how sickening I might find them as to do so open the door to the state interfering with my sexual fantasies and it is no business of the state to try to either control or punish that aspect of human nature.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 06:09 am
@BillRM,
I'm concerned about the welfare of my kids. It's fairly obvious what sort of person you are. You're the sort of person who needs to be kept well away from children.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 06:17 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You're the sort of person who needs to be kept well away from children.


It is a shame then that my wife and my two step daughters do not agree with you on that subject.

Four step grandkids three boys and one girl as a matter of fact.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 06:23 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
My only position is that on the whole all others things being equal children benefit from having two sex role models inside the family and teachers outside of the family is in no way a replacement for sex role models inside the family...
Frankly I can not see for the life of me what your problem could be with those statements.

One problem with those statements is that they contradict what izzythepush said was his own experience as a single father--he does feel that interaction with
female teachers provides sufficient interaction with a female role model. You are negating and dismissing what he said without providing any support for your belief.

Implicit in what you are saying, whether you are aware of it or not, and whether you care to admit it or not, is the assumption that, children who grow up in families without both gender parents are being shortchanged, or disadvantaged, or deprived of adequate "sex role models" and that this lack within the family cannot be compensated for by contacts outside the family with significant adults, like teachers. That basic assumption is wrong, and it is not supported by social science research findings. And that erroneous assumption was what used as an argument in the past against gay or lesbian adoptions.

How do you know that teachers, with whom a child spends most of his day, do not provide adequate "sex role models" for a child that are as influential as what a parent might provide? Your understanding of the acculturation process, which includes the development of gender roles, seems extremely limited to the point of being naive.

Children benefit from contact with as many loving, and caring, and supportive adults as possible, regardless of the genders of these people, and it doesn't really matter whether all these people live under the same roof, or are even members of the same family. Apart from extended family members, like grandparents, or aunts and uncles, the child's own social network, which includes his teachers, as well as the parents of his friends and playmates, in addition to the entire prevailing culture which surrounds the child, provides considerably enough "sex role models" to assure more than adequate socialization and development regardless of the parental gender composition of the child's home.

And, in terms of this particular thread, the research has consistently indicated that children raised by gay or lesbian parents suffer no significant adverse develpmental consequences when compared to children raised by heterosexual parents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting








BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 06:48 am
@firefly,
Sorry but would you care for me to post the hard crime statistic showing that children that grow up in households without any male role models for example are far more likely to become involved in the criminal justice system and have other bad outcomes.

The reverse of children being raise without female roles models are far less common so off hand I do not know of any such studies being done in that area.

An yes in my opinion it is better if a child have both sexual roles models in their life then to not have both sexual role models in their life and a teacher with twenty-five children and the job of teaching them basic information about the world they are living in is not the same as having a big sister or a mother or an grandmother in their lives.

Now in the case of the two daddies on this thread and similar situations I see no reason that their son would need to be without female role models as I am assuming both men at least had mothers and perhaps sisters, aunts or close female friends so why would their son need to be short change due to their lifestyle?

That is just you being PC and seeing an attack when there is no attack is being launch.

My comment just deal with the to me crazy idea that just having female teachers in children lives is enough to meet the two sex role models needs of children.


firefly
 
  0  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 07:13 am
@BillRM,
Just what is your idea of a "sex role model"? How are you using the term?

What aspects of the "sex role model" does a big sister, or a mother, or a grandmother, transmit to a male child? And why can't a female outside of the family, such as a teacher, act as a "sex role model" for that child?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 07:40 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Sorry but would you care for me to post the hard crime statistic showing that children that grow up in households without any male role models for example are far more likely to become involved in the criminal justice system and have other bad outcomes.


That is the problem, in such households there is hardly any involvement with male role models, because most of the primary teachers, health and social workers are women.

In terms of gender education what is particularly important with boys, is that they are read to by a positive male role model, otherwise reading is seen as something feminine.

What really gets me is that I was giving a message of support to JCboy who I think will make a fantastic father. Instead of being able to congratulate him, I have to deal with your callous dismissal of my wife's death, followed by a period of pontification on matters you know absolutely nothing about. I wouldn't have minded had this come from some evangelical, because I would have known that at the very least they were concerned about the welfare of children.

It's fairly certain that if you have the welfare of anyone at heart it's not children, it's violent sex offenders. BTW people fantasise about all manner of things they wouldn't want to happen in real life. It's no argument whatsoever, just something an apologist would say.
BillRM
 
  -4  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 07:50 am
@firefly,
Lord so let see it is now PC to take the stand that women and men bring the same things to the table in raising and enacting with children?

That there are no sexual differences of any kind in how mothers or a fathers figures deal with children and child rearing?

So to state therefore that there is an intrinsic benefits to having role models of both sexes in a child life is no longer PC?

As far as teachers are concern I am sure they made great role models for their own children but it is not either their job or place to have strong emotional bonding with the children that they teach of the kind that family adults would hopefully have with the family children.

I do not know about your life Firefly as unlike the rest of us you had chosen not to share any of that with us however no teacher in my life could have come close to taking the place of any of the adults living inside my family.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:00 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I have to deal with your callous dismissal of my wife's death, followed by a period of pontification on matters you know absolutely nothing about. I wouldn't have minded had this come from some evangelical, because I would have known that at the very least they were concerned about the welfare of children.


Callous dismissal of your wife death?

Where did you come up with such nonsense from my postings?

I only had taken issue with your comment that females teachers are enough of a role model for children to replaced family females role models.

Frankly I can not see where there is the connection between your wife death and my disagreement on that issue with you.

To me in any case both sexes bring things to the table in child rearing that the other sex for the most part does not do and that apply to both boys and girls.

I am sorry that I had not kept up with the PC nonsense of the fireflies of the world to had known ahead of time that to think that men and women do not have a hundred percents overlap in what they offer children in no longer allow.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -2  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:19 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
That is the problem, in such households there is hardly any involvement with male role models, because most of the primary teachers, health and social workers are women.

That's not the only problem. Our jails and prisons are not filled with middle class and affluent individuals--the association between a lack of male role models in the home and increased involvement with the criminal justice system is also compounded (and contaminated) by factors such as low income and poverty, as well as the high risk factors of drugs, violence, gangs, and over-all crime, that permeate certain low income neighborhoods . It is not just the lack of a male role model in the home, or even in the school, socio-economic factors are a very salient variable.

Single mothers, and lesbian partners, particularly those with adequate financial resources, and access to decent residential neighborhoods and schools, are very able to raise healthy, well adjusted sons, who grow up without involvement with the criminal justice system--and the overwhelming majority of them do so all the time.

BillRM, as usual, displays a rather superficial and shallow understanding of the topic.

firefly
 
  -2  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 09:28 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
As far as teachers are concern I am sure they made great role models for their own children but it is not either their job or place to have strong emotional bonding with the children that they teach of the kind that family adults would hopefully have with the family children.

Emotional bonding with a child has absolutely nothing to do with providing "sex role models"--and you were talking about "sex role models". Your thinking is muddled and all over the place.
Quote:
Lord so let see it is now PC to take the stand that women and men bring the same things to the table in raising and enacting with children?

Again, you are clouding the issue. This has nothing to do with PC issues, or whether men and women parent the same way--it has to do with whether gender is an essential factor in good parenting and in providing a home that adequately satisfies a child's needs. And the research clearly indicates that it is not necessary to have children raised by parents of both genders.
Quote:
Same-sex couples can be effective parents, researchers find
1/21/2010
By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY

Children raised by same-sex couples appear to do as well as those raised by parents of both sexes, suggests an international research review that challenges the long-ingrained belief that children need male and female parents for healthy adjustment.
"It's more about the quality of the parenting than the gender of the parents," says Judith Stacey of New York University, co-author of the comprehensive review. It will be published Friday in the Journal of Marriage and Family.

Sociologists Stacey and Timothy Biblarz of the University of Southern California, spent five years reviewing 81 studies of one- and two-parent families, including gay, lesbian and heterosexual couples. "No research supports the widely held conviction that the gender of parents matters for child well-being," they conclude.

"Children being raised by same-gender parents, on most all of the measures that we care about, self-esteem, school performance, social adjustment and so on, seem to be doing just fine and, in most cases, are statistically indistinguishable from kids raised by married moms and dads on these measures," Biblarz says.

Three researchers critiqued the effort; their comments appear in the same issue of the journal. Lisa Strohschein of the University of Alberta in Canada takes issue with the review's attempts to "tease out the effects of the parent's gender" from an array of variables.

She notes that many of the studies cited place differences in family type "in context with other factors that influence child outcomes," including number and gender of parents in the household, sexual identity, marital status and biogenetic relationship to children. The review, she says, "provided no such context."

Kyle Pruett, a clinical professor of psychiatry at the Yale University Child Study Center and co-author of the 2009 book Partnership Parenting,has not seen the research review. But he says "you can't take gender out of the world."

He says that as adults, "we are struggling to be politically correct about gender" when we should be thinking more about the children. "It's not about the supremacy of one gender over another or about the necessity of one gender over another," he says.

In addition to child outcomes, the sociologists reviewed parenting styles and found "two women who choose to parent together are slightly more likely than a heterosexual couple to be actively committed to hands-on parenting. We don't have data yet on two men parenting, but I think it will come out fairly similar," Stacey says.

Fatherhood expert Michael Lamb, a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge in Cambridge, England, says he has changed his views about gender roles based on more recent research.

"Nothing about a person's sex determines the capacity to be a good parent," he says in an e-mail. "It is well-established that children do not need parents of each gender to adjust healthily."

And what about single parents?

"What counts a lot more than the number of parents is the quality," Stacey says. "It's definitely an advantage if there are two parents who get along over one parent. But if the two don't get along, sometimes one parent is better."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-01-21-parentgender21_ST_N.htm


Quote:
The picture that emerges from research is one of general engagement in social life with peers, parents, family members, and friends. Fears about children of lesbian or gay parents being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no scientific support. Overall, results of research suggest that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from that of children with heterosexual parents.
http://www.apa.org/about/governance/council/policy/parenting.aspx


Many heterosexual families are far from idyllic, and simply having close family relationships that include both genders does not necessarily mean those relationships will be positive or beneficial to the children.

I really fail to see where you are making any meaningful points, or are even saying anything that is particularly useful to the male partners and the little boy who is the topic of this thread.
Quote:
So to state therefore that there is an intrinsic benefits to having role models of both sexes in a child life is no longer PC?

Everyone grows up interacting with both male and female adults, both inside the family and outside the family, and no one is saying that is not the way it should be. Children are surrounded by both male and female role models--of all sorts--and short of living in a remote area, homeschooling the child and preventing all contacts with anyone outside the immediate family, and keeping computers, television, books, and newspapers, out of the home, there is no way to limit exposure to all of those varying "sex role models"--children are bombarded with them. So, your statement about needing to have such role models, of both genders, is not only superfluous, and unnecessary, it's downright absurd. The gender role models, and a child's exposure to them, are built into the entire fabric of the social structure--it's impossible for the child to escape them.

Your personal views on whether a child needs "emotional bonding" with parents, or parent equivalents, of both genders seems to have no relevance to this topic--which is about this particular two-daddy family, except to suggest that this particular family has something lacking from your perspective. Why you want to interject that sort of negative or discordant note in a thread about a gay man's joy over having a step-son in his life is beyond me. And, as usual, your contentious attitude, as well as your preoccupation with irrelevant issues, serves only to try to derail another thread.

Antonio is fortunate to be living with two men who love him, and nuture him, and are very concerned with his welfare. Whoever else is in his life, and their gender, really is unimportant in the context of this thread, and frankly is none of your business.





izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 09:37 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

[Whoever else is in his life, and their gender, really is unimportant in the context of this thread, and frankly is none of your business.


I couldn't agree more. Also, any family that feels there needs to be a 'sex role model,' is a family that should be investigated by social services.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:09 am
@firefly,
Bullshit as role modeling to work well you need to have a close look and close relationship to that model not a causal look as in dealing with a teacher!!!!!!!!!

It is of benefit and a strong benefit to have dealings with both sexes during childhood inside families and many studies had shown that fact!!!!!!!!!!

Now that does not mean that same sex couples or single parents for that matter can not successfully raised children to adulthood with or without such role models.

However you are once more wishing to denial facts in order to support gay couples raising children when no one is attacking gay couples raising children on this thread.

If gay couples can give their children the gift of having loving relationships with adults of both sexes when growing up those children will be likely better off then if they can not or does not give such a gift to their children and that go for single parents also.

You are a silly and sad example of someone who is so driven to be PC correct you are more then willing to denial children the real benefits of having such two sex relationships in their family by telling gay and single parents that there is no reason or benefit to going to the trouble and efforts to bring such adults into their children lives.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:10 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Also, any family that feels there needs to be a 'sex role model,' is a family that should be investigated by social services.


You are clearly a nut case as only a nut case would made such a comment and a sick nut case at that with sexual hangups.

As having sexual role models inside a family have nothing to do with having sex with the children or whatever other sick ideas your disease brain had come up with.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  5  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:23 am
This was such a nice thread about Antonio and his two daddies - can't you
discuss your views someplace else? WE all know that BillRM is nuts, why
the hell do we need to feed him day in and day out with replies?
BillRM
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:24 am
@firefly,
Quote:
role models in the home and increased involvement with the criminal justice system is also compounded (and contaminated) by factors such as low income and poverty, as well as the high risk factors of drugs, violence, gangs, and over-all crime, that permeate certain low income neighborhoods . It is not just the lack of a male role model in the home, or even in the school, socio-economic factors are a very salient variable.


Sorry Firefly studies had been done to compensate for economic hardships being more likely to exist in single parents homes and still the benefit at all economic levels of having both a mother and a father in the home for children of both sexes had been shown clearly.

Oh and yes very rich kids do go off the rail and end up in prison or dead.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  4  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:25 am
Antonio had a blast at his friends birthday party yesterday. They had a pinata full of candy and he was swinging away. He was so tuckered out he took a nap for two hours when he came home. This morning he discovered there are tadpoles living in the fountain in the backyard. He wants to catch a few and keep them in a jar, I had to explain to him they wouldn’t be able to live in the jar so he has decided to wait until they grow a little more before catching them.

Today is our Sunday Funday and we are off to terrorize the city of St. Pete.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:26 am
@CalamityJane,
From now on I'll ignore him on this thread. You're quite right.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:27 am
@CalamityJane,
So having role models of both sexes is of benefit to children when they are growing up is now consider to be a crazy position to take Jane?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 01/21/2025 at 04:58:40