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A' setting right the Scottish scores =?

 
 
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:57 pm

Without them surfs = Without their surfs?

Context:

At Bannockburn arose a king
Whose valor would be known 'er more
Brave Bruce's boldness would be seen
A' setting right the Scottish scores
He gathered up the Scottish bands,
Without allowing cowards rest
And by example lead the Clans
And so restored old Scotland's crest.
Yes, thank the men who followed Bruce,
Without them surfs today we'd be
All hangin high in Edward's noose,
Instead of men remaining free.



"Wha, for Scotland's king and law, Freedom's sword will strongly draw, Freeman stand or Freeman fa', Let him on wi'
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 626 • Replies: 8
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 05:10 pm
A score, in this case, means vengeance. It is most often seen in the expression "i've got a score to settle with him." It comes from the custom of keeping score in a game by cutting a notch in a stick, and from that was made into a figure of speech. Late in the 13th century, King Edward of England invaded Scotland, and put it under the control of his trusted followers, who, so said the Scots, abused the people. In 1297, a man named William Wallace lead a rebellion against the English. He was unexpectedly successful, until defeated in 1304 at Falkirk. He was betrayed by a Scotsman, and turned over to King Edward, who had him tortured and executed.

One young man in that era was Robert the Bruce, of mixed Scots, Norman and French descent. About ten years after the battle of Falkirk, Robert the Bruce defeated the English at the battle of Bannockburn (a bannock is a baked oat cake, and a burn is a small stream--so it means the stream of the oat cake). He made Scotland independent, and he made himself King.

So, this poem celebrates Robert the Bruce, and his victory over the English, which was also seen as getting revenge against the English. Robert the Bruce is a Scots national hero to this day.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:30 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

A score, in this case, means vengeance. It is most often seen in the expression "i've got a score to settle with him." It comes from the custom of keeping score in a game by cutting a notch in a stick, and from that was made into a figure of speech. Late in the 13th century, King Edward of England invaded Scotland, and put it under the control of his trusted followers, who, so said the Scots, abused the people. In 1297, a man named William Wallace lead a rebellion against the English. He was unexpectedly successful, until defeated in 1304 at Falkirk. He was betrayed by a Scotsman, and turned over to King Edward, who had him tortured and executed.

One young man in that era was Robert the Bruce, of mixed Scots, Norman and French descent. About ten years after the battle of Falkirk, Robert the Bruce defeated the English at the battle of Bannockburn (a bannock is a baked oat cake, and a burn is a small stream--so it means the stream of the oat cake). He made Scotland independent, and he made himself King.

So, this poem celebrates Robert the Bruce, and his victory over the English, which was also seen as getting revenge against the English. Robert the Bruce is a Scots national hero to this day.


Excellent! Thank you.

PS.
Without them surfs = Without their surfs?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:33 pm
That makes little sense to me--but it may be an "unstandard" spelling of serf, or a transcription error. In that case, it would mean that without the men who fought with Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn, Scots would be serfs today. If you don't know what serf means, please look it up, i'm not up to explaining it right now.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:35 pm
@Setanta,
could be smurfs, as well...
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:47 pm
@Rockhead,
I doubt that . . . i can't see a smurf wielding a claymore . . .
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:27 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

That makes little sense to me--but it may be an "unstandard" spelling of serf, or a transcription error. In that case, it would mean that without the men who fought with Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn, Scots would be serfs today. If you don't know what serf means, please look it up, i'm not up to explaining it right now.


Serf, slave, the oppressed.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:32 pm
@oristarA,
If that's what you got by looking it up, then it was a very imprecise definition. The reason that European feudalism and "feudalism" in China or Japan are not the same (and there never really was feudalism in those two countries) is that serfs in Europe had rights in property, for as much as one might allege they were oppressed. Although they had to pay the heriot, the "entry fee" to the land of their fathers, if they did so, then one third of the land they farmed was theirs to do with as they pleased. They were definitely not slaves. A serf who could amass sufficient capital to buy land ceased to be a serf, as did his wife and his children. I didn't want to go into this for just this reason--it's just too complex for a brief answer.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:53 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

If that's what you got by looking it up, then it was a very imprecise definition. The reason that European feudalism and "feudalism" in China or Japan are not the same (and there never really was feudalism in those two countries) is that serfs in Europe had rights in property, for as much as one might allege they were oppressed. Although they had to pay the heriot, the "entry fee" to the land of their fathers, if they did so, then one third of the land they farmed was theirs to do with as they pleased. They were definitely not slaves. A serf who could amass sufficient capital to buy land ceased to be a serf, as did his wife and his children. I didn't want to go into this for just this reason--it's just too complex for a brief answer.


Amazing. Thank you.

But I knew there was no real feudalism in China's history (of course our government used to lie about that - or doing so out of ignorance).

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