Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

@gungasnake,

Rationalizing hate I see---typical, Guanja. Rather than realize that this was the act of a deviant 'individual' and address the problem of that individual you're still damning an entire class.

That is what Beck and Wilders do--class hatred. And that class hatred is what drive weak minds like Breivik to commit their heinous acts through their misguided gospel of hate.

Right/Left Politics has nothing to do with it--hate is hate. Until that is recognized generally and personally, this will happen again.

Rap

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@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

It merely expresses your hatred for a very fine, admirable man.

David

izzythepush wrote:

Contempt would be a more appropriate term.

No, I discern a lot of active hatred and mindless, vitriolic malice in your posts.

U have abandoned reason in favor of emotion.
That 's not always a good thing to do.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

You stand testament to the dangers of abandoning reason.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

But hasn't Obama fixed it?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I wouldn't know. He's your President, and he had a pretty big mess to fix.

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@raprap,

Typical over reaction to something Beck has said or written, and more importantly, overuse of the term "hate."

It was stupid of Beck to liken the Labor Party youth camp with the Hitler Youth League, and I would certainly understand if the parents of the children killed and wounded found his comment highly offensive, but preaching hate?

Maybe he does preach hatred in the rest of what he wrote, but all you provided was the linked excerpt, and I assume that it's from these words that you have formed your opinion.

I detect neither preaching nor hatred, and the notion that Beck is justifying the deaths of the Norwegian youths because of the politics of their parents is simply absurd.

I'm not trying to defend Beck. He's a narcissistic kook, but I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find any evidence that Beck hated the members of even the Hitler Youth League or felt that their murder might be justified.

What is your point in posting this link?

Are you suggesting that Beck is somehow responsible for the attacks, or do you just want to take another opportunity to slam him?

The former is far-fetched and the latter, it seems to me, is a pretty cheap shot.

Again, I'm not defending Beck and he certainly doesn't need me to do so, but I do think it is a dangerously excessive to label a comment like his as "preaching hate."

...almost "preaching hate" itself.

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@izzythepush,

This is just ridiculous.

Who are the people "like Beck" who inspired Breivik?

Winston Churchill?
Mahatma Gandhi?
George Orwell?
Thomas Jefferson?
John Locke?
Edmund Burke?
George Bernard Shaw?
Mark Twain?

All of these individuals were quoted in Breivik's manifesto.

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@gungasnake,

Irony, not humor.

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@izzythepush,

But Cheney was my Vice-President, and yet you seem to know so much about what he did.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It was stupid of Beck to liken the Labor Party youth camp with the Hitler Youth League, and I would certainly understand if the parents of the children killed and wounded found his comment highly offensive, but preaching hate?

Again, I'm not defending Beck and he certainly doesn't need me to do so, but I do think it is a dangerously excessive to label a comment like his as "preaching hate."

...almost "preaching hate" itself.

So after 9/11 it would be acceptable for a Pakistani cleric to call the victims Nazis would it? Or would you describe that as hate crime? If you're not defending Beck why did you bother with this post? You're really very stupid.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

So after 9/11 it would be acceptable for a Pakistani cleric to call the victims Nazis would it? Or would you describe that as hate crime? If you're not defending Beck why did you bother with this post? You're really very stupid.

It wouldn't be acceptable for a Pakistani cleric to call the victims Nazis, any more than it was acceptible for Beck to liken the Labor party youth camp to the Nazi Youth League. If you read what I wrote you wouldn't need to ask such a stupid question.

In all likelihood, a Pakistani cleric who called the vicitims of 9/11 Nazis would have actually felt hatred for them and everyone else living in the US. I think the notion of "hate crimes" is ridiculous but even given the absurd framework, the expression of the Pakistani cleric would not be a crime of any sort.

Of course Beck didn't call the victims of the Norwegian terrorist attack Nazis, but don't let that stop you from going overboard.

Apparently the only choice you have offered is Attack Beck or Defend Beck.

I found another...reproach you for your stupidity, which, with this post, you have confirmed in spades.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

It was stupid of Beck to liken the Labor Party youth camp with the Hitler Youth League..

Agree. My guess is that a better comparison would be to a Pioneer lager ("пионерлагерь").

http://www.just-so-site.com/archive/pioneer/pion_songs.htm

http://www.just-so-site.com/archive/pioneer/gornist.gif

http://www.just-so-site.com/archive/pioneer/lenin.gif

Quote:

Законы пионеров Советского Союза:

1. Пионер предан Родине, партии, коммунизму.

2. Пионер готовится стать комсомольцем.

3. Пионер держит равнение на героев борьбы и труда.

4. Пионер чтит память павших бойцов и готовится стать защитником Родины.

5. Пионер настойчив в учении, труде и спорте.

6. Пионер - честный и верный товарищ, всегда смело стоит за правду.

7. Пионер - товарищ и вожак октябрят.

8. Пионер - друг пионерам и детям трудящихся всех стран.

http://www.just-so-site.com/archive/pioneer/pioneer.jpg

http://www.just-so-site.com/archive/pioneer/orlen5.jpg

Quote:

Марш пионерских дружин
Муз. Н. Губарькова, сл. Г. Ходосова

Мы - Пионеры Советской Страны,
Нас миллионы!
Партии Ленина делу верны
Наши знамена!

Припев:
Заветы Ленина храним мы с честью,
Идем за партией, шагаем в ряд,
Наша дружба навек нерушима,
И костры наши ярко горят;
Мы идем за дружиной дружина,
Мы идем за отрядом отряд.

Родина мира и счастья оплот -
Наша Отчизна -
Твердой рукою над нами зажжет
Свет коммунизма!

Припев.

Все за великое дело к борьбе
Будьте готовы!
Родина, мы салютуем тебе,
Всегда готовы!

Припев.

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@OmSigDAVID,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I'll bet that he was unarmed.....

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Of course. He wasn't on duty.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In NY, police are expected to be armed at all times.
It used to be the rule that thay were REQUIRED
to be armed off duty by law or by rule.
I believe that has changed, but that thay are usually armed.

In the newspapers, there is frequent reference
to off duty police doing things that involve use of their guns.

I believe that is true thru out almost all (maybe all) of America.
In fact (if I remember accurately) in recent years, Congress has enacted a statute
that police of any State can legally carry their guns in any other State.

David

Update on this point:
some NY police were vacationing in Florida,
when one of them was robbed. He had his gun with him
and he defended himself. Both the robbers and the victim
(NY police) were shot and are recovering in the hospital.

In other words, Walter:
OF COURSE, the police were armed off duty.

David

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@Finn dAbuzz,

You're really dodging the issue, this man was one of your own, so a little contrition would be in order. What Beck said was incredibly offensive and should be condemned out of hand. You can't do that though can you? You offer half hearted defence whilst squirming uncomfortably on the spot like a priest in a gimp mask. You can't tell the difference between right and wrong, your head's so far stuck up your arse.

Providing a list of the gunman's other influences shows your desperation. Those other people aren't peddlers of hate like Beck. The only difference between Beck and Bin Laden, is that Beck isn't principled enough to abandon his wealth and live in a cave.

Regarding Cheney, war crimes don't tend to be limited to domestic politics.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

What Beck said was incredibly offensive and should be condemned out of hand

I think a lot of us are fed-up/bored with claims of offense...one cant put together two words anymore with out someone claiming to be offended and trying to control us. You are offended, got it, NEXT!

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@izzythepush,

More stupidity from izzythepush.

Beck is one of "my own?"

Really?

The fact that I consider him a "narcissistic kook," apparently escaped your comprehension.

That I acknowledged his remarks would understandably be offensive to those who actually have a real stake in this tragedy also seems to have escaped your comprehension.

I'm sorry if I don't share the scope of your sanctimony. I'm not offended by remarks that have no personal connection to me and mine. I'm sure this is because I am not, like you, a humanist world citizen who not only cries for all who are injured but takes angry offense at any boorish comment that may be uttered. Yes, izzy you are far the better man than I, because you offend so easily and so often.

I registered my displeasure with Beck's comments, but apparently that is not good enough for you. Instead I should have denounced him as a hate-monger and called for his head. Apparently, such is the only reaction that might verify that I can tell the difference between right and wrong. Sorry, izzy but I'm not about to allow your hyperbolic partisanship define morality for me.

Your response precisely reflects the huge flaw in your perspective, because by obvious extension you wish to assign Breivik as "one of my own" as well. This has been and will continue to be the aim of you and those "of your own" who wish to use this tragedy to advance their political prejudices.

There is everything rational and nothing desperate about pointing out that there is as much evidence that Brievik was influence by the people I cited as he was by Mark Steyn, Daniel Pipes, Theodore Dalyrymple and Melanie Phillips. All of the individuals named were quoted in Brievik's manifesto, but apparently you have the smarts to recognize which sources he corrupted and which he had spot on.

You believe Beck is a "peddler of hate." Be that as it may, he was never quoted or referenced by Brievik, while Gandhi, Shaw, Jefferson et al were. So how do you explain his utilization of sources that you might respect, if not revere?

I know, it's simple. He's crazy. It's obvious, at least to you and "your own," that citing Gandhi in a manifesto promoting violence is crazy while citing Steyn makes perfect sense.

You know, my head may be stuck well up my arse, but I prefer that possibility to your reality in which your head is stuck far up the ass of whatever Progressive guru is telling you how to think.

As for true desperation one need only refer to your incredibly lame rejoinder about Cheney.

1 Reply

I thought that Glenn Beck had been dropped from his network, being too right-wing and flaky even for Fox News?

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@McTag,

McTag wrote:

I thought that Glenn Beck had been dropped from his network, being too right-wing and flaky even for Fox News?

He had one of if not the highest rated shows on Fox, his show is gone because the corporate class who pays for media (through buying commercial time) has a problem with a guy who is openly agitating to burn everything down.

Fox News and the corporate class have zero problem with Right Wing or flaky, but business is business, and Fox News is first a business despite the claims that it is a political organization.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Thank you.

Do you think US legislators will go after News International following events in Britain?

1 Reply

@McTag,

Quote:

Do you think US legislators will go after News International following events in Britain?

Absent someone claiming that Murdoch told them to break the law by hacking phones, I doubt it. Washington has a lot of things to deal with right now, they dont have time to be picking fights. Also, few of the Washington elites have a better reputation than does Murdoch, they are not very well placed to be going around calling extremely successful businessmen slime, not to mention it would crimp their election campaign fundraising efforts.

Note: I transferred this to the Murdoch thread in case you care to continue...

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Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

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